Question & Answer Board

 Q2660 Restoring an Adlake Kero  Hi, I recently bought an Adlake 250 lantern at a garage sale. I cleaned it a reasonable amount with 0000 steel wool and citrus degreaser. Now I would like to get it functional. From what I have read, I need to use gasoline to clean out the fount. There is some sort of cotton baffle(?) in the pot - should that stay in there? Then I just need to get some kerosene (do you have a recommendation) and a replacement wick. However, I cannot figure out what size wick to buy. I would appreciate your help. Thanks.  Posted Tuesday, December 3, 2013 by JR   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  JR; First of all I’d caution you against using gasoline to clean out that fount!! (or to clean anything else!!!) ..It is just way too dangerous, ..too easy to set yourself on fire, even outside (and/or burn the house down!). Plus, you don’t want gasoline residue in the pot when you fill it with kerosene. (A good hardware store should have a gallon of K1 kerosene for you.) I strongly encourage people to LEAVE that fiber material in the pot. So many unknowledgeable novice collectors have been removing it as a result of short sighted and, I think, very bad advice. By removing the batting material you are destroying an irreplaceable part of the history of the lantern. It was dropped in the pot before the top was sealed to the pot, and it cannot be replaced if you remove it. Compared to the day to day use your lantern saw on the railroad, you will use it only a small fraction of that, and reasonably cleaned batting will not cause you problems, though some contributors caution that it contributes to water condensation in the pot in humid climates. ..Again, a little Denatured Alcohol in the pot will absorb and burn off any water that accumulates in the pot; say a half teaspoon per fill of K1. --- For Cleaning that pot and the batting: A good soaking or two with WD-40 will loosen up whatever is in that pot and do a functional job of cleaning that batting material.. Let it sit for a day then rinse several times with Mineral Spirits, shaking the pot well, and then several more times with Denatured Alcohol. If there is any water in there the Alcohol will pull it out. Let it dry out for a day or two. Any Denatured Alcohol still in there will mix right into the fresh kerosene. (I've also washed out pots with the batting in them using just dish detergent and hot water, allowing it to dry several days in the hot summer sun) Did the lantern come with a wick? If it’s more than 3 inches long, go ahead and use it after cleaning it and drying it well. I clean and reuse all my old original wicks, both round and flat. Soak it with WD-40 and work it through the wick well with your fingers. Next, squirt some dish detergent on the wick and work that in well. Rinse and reapply detergent. Rinse, rinse, rinse that wick in warm running water and let it air dry for a day somewhere warm and it will work just fine. Look on line for the W. T. Kirkman site { http://www.lanternnet.com/ } (Link 1) he should have replacement wicks. (... but, PLEASE, leave that original fiber batting in the pot!!) ---- .... Red Beard  Link 1  Posted Wednesday, December 4, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A.  First of all, NO GASOLINE!! To add to Red Beards' post, I believe the original non sloshing "batting" was usually either un-ginned cotton wadding or later on,"Kimpack" Cellulose fiber packing, both of which were installed before crimping on the top of the fount and I agree it should be preserved whenever possible. The only modern replacement I've found to withstand kerosene is the polyester fiberfill material used in pillows/cushions. And that would require removing and carefully re-packing the fount very evenly (good luck) I also agree with his method of cleaning out the existing material. WD-40 was designed to displace water, the rest is just to remove other non-flammable elements of the cleaning process and a thorough drying before re-saturating with kerosene. Posted Thursday, December 5, 2013 by W.M.

 Q2656 Crossing Gate Lamp  I picked up this lantern/lamp the other day with the goal of restoring it to original condition. What I would like to know if anyone has any detailed drawings or detailed pictures of this model. For example I think the door is incorrect and there is a lot of damage in the guides that hold the door and along the bottom of the lantern. There is also a piece of spring steel inside the upper part of the lantern that I cannot seem to figure out its purpose. Any input would be appreciated.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Friday, November 29, 2013 by CH   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  This information is from "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Railroad Lighting,Volume Two-The Railroad Signal Lamp" by Richard C. Barrett pages 212,214 and 215. This is a Dressel model 250 C,E or H crossing gate lamp which was shown in their 1919 catalog. They came with 4" lenses, a No.8 tin 14 ounce oil font, and a number 0 Dressel no-chimney short shaft burner or a style "C" 18 ounce font and a No. 99 longtime burner with a 4&1/2" shaft. It looks the the door is a flat piece of sheet metal with a slight flange on the top of it which would stop it from sliding all the way down and could be used as a handle to remove it. Also the bail has an elongated oval shaped loop in it at the top. The vent holes at the top of this lamp with the dog bone shape are one way to identify older Dressel lamps. Posted Saturday, November 30, 2013 by KM

 Q2655 Railroad Sign  I found this piece in the basement of a house in St. Paul MN. There are no markings on it save for the Adlake embossing on the top of both lanterns. Is it a railroad item?..If so when and where it may have been used? It looks like one can change out the message plate. It has quite a bit of surface rust and one lens is missing. Not sure whether it is good to restore it or sell it to someone who collects RR items. Thank you for your anticipated response.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, November 27, 2013 by DW   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  All I can say is WOW ! ----- This piece only goes to reinforce the idea that Lamp Manufacturers could and did create a seemingly never ending variety of products out of their basic designs for a lamp. --- I have not seen a variant like this before. I’m guessing that the lamps illuminate the “LOOK” sign. Could you PLEASE send a photo with the “LOOK” portion opened up so we can see what’s in there and how it is lit up?? --- These lamps have an integral /non-removable kerosene tank that holds a full gallon of oil (that very large round base is the fuel fount). That 1 gallon style of oil tank was used on some Semaphore Lamps out in remote areas so the Signal Maintainer didn’t have to fill them as often. --- Is it Railroad??; my guess is yes, and I’d also guess it was probably some sort of grade crossing warning for automobile drivers. -- I’d further guess it was used in an otherwise unlit area where there was frequent rail traffic (it’s hard for some younger fans to imagine that only 50 years ago the world, even in cities, was pretty dark at night, with very little, or no electric lighting in many busy rail areas) -- When?; odd ball kerosene lighting was in use into the 1960s; I doubt if it lasted past the early 1970s, but who knows. The Twin Cities were an amazing ‘spaghetti bowl’ of railroad tracks and I wouldn’t guess as to how late something like this could have been used, especially in a warehouse or industrial area. -- That ‘Sardine Can’ looking baffle around the air intake holes in the top of the lamp is specifically for Semaphore Lamps. It served to protect the air intakes from the violent blast of the steam engine exhaust which could extinguish the flame in the lamp. That baffle however, was a later invention and not all Semaphore Lamps had them. My belief is that the baffles came into use around, or shortly after, World War II. Your piece would have been assembled out of stock Semaphore Lamp parts, and therefore has the baffles around the air intakes, though I doubt they were needed for the use your lamp was put to. Their presence though, would make me guess your lamp is no older than the 1940s. -- Restore or sell ??? --- I’m thinking some railfan or transportation museum would really love to have that piece! -- As frequent readers know, I Strongly Caution everyone AGAINST “Restoring” pieces like this as their “weathered” condition is a testament to their actual use in a railroad application. Most “restoration” repaint jobs look clean BUT very unauthentic; I’m a big believer in LEAVING pieces like this as you find them!!! ---- .... Red Beard  Posted Wednesday, November 27, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Redbeard: Thanks for the rapid reply. I have numerous other photos...at work. I will be back to work Monday. If I can have your e-mail I will mail them to you. Many close up shots that will show the "internals"....It was really quite creative...thanks again...Doug Wills...St. Paul,MN Posted Thursday, November 28, 2013 by DW

A. A killer piece. It's variation of an Adlake 1105 Oil Burning Highway Crossing Sign. It is lit by way of reflecting mirrors using the twin oil burners. They were also available with a STOP sign, red lenses and a SLOW sign, yellow lenses. I would guess it's from the 1920's when highway travel really started to increase. The baffles on the ventilator caps are typically found on lamps set higher above the ground were crosswinds would be stronger. Some of the vertical blast of locomotive exhaust might be directed at the open underside of the baffle and into the lamp so it would not really be as effective for blasts from below as it would be for crosswind blasts. Posted Thursday, November 28, 2013 by JFR

A. JFR: If you are interested I would be happy to send you the photos I am forwarding to redbeard. They reveal the white/clear lenses on the back as well as other identifying characteristics....Doug W., St. Paul, MN Posted Thursday, November 28, 2013 by JFR

A. It probably goes without saying, but a more stable flame meant more predictable fuel consumption.  Posted Friday, November 29, 2013 by JFR

A. Thank you Doug. The photos might better shared with a larger audience here as this is a very rare and unusual lamp. Just a little more clarification on those ventilator baffles. Their major function was to keep the flame as bright and stable as possible in strong winds so the color aspect could be seen from the greatest distance possible, (as well as helping to keep the flame from blowing out). I would guess (and it's only a guess) from the lamps I've observed,the baffles might have first come into use in the early 20's. Those lucky enough to have the Adlake Bulletins of the time might be able to pinpoint it a little better, but alas, those bulletins are seldom dated. Posted Friday, November 29, 2013 by JFR

A. Redbeard/JFR: I have several photos of this piece..front back sides, interior etc....what address should I use to send same.....My computer will only send 4 at a time....Doug W. Posted Wednesday, December 4, 2013 by Doug W

A. Hi Doug; please send those to railroadraider@gmail.com Thanks for offering to forward the photos, ---- .... Red Beard Posted Saturday, December 7, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Hi Doug- Do you still have this lantern? I am looking for a measurement of th heigth of the letters used on the illuminated section of the sign. Feel free to send me a message at pm AT pmsignal DOT com. Thanks! Posted Sunday, December 2, 2018 by pmsignal

 Q2652 Removing RR Lantern Lens  Hello, how do I remove green lantern lens to replace with amber lens? My RR lantern is an Adlake Chicago non-sweating lantern. It's from the 1960's. It's big. I think its called a switch lantern. Thank you.  Posted Tuesday, November 19, 2013 by AF   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Hi AF; as always, a photo is really needed to give you an accurate answer. Any friend with a cell phone can take a photo for you and e-mail it through the phone’s Text Message feature to the same address you sent this question to. ..instead of a phone number for the Picture Message, enter the e-mail address you sent this question to, or have them send it to your e-mail, download the photo and send it via your e-mail. --- Most lamp lenses are held on with a metal band shaped in a “C” cross-section channel. Those bands should fasten and tighten with a screw. --- I’d start by spraying a very small amount of WD-40 on the screw and letting it set for an hour to a day, depending on how corroded and dirty the threads are. Use a good screwdriver that is large enough so that it fully and tightly fills the slot in the screw head; ..too small of a screwdriver will cause damage to the head of the screw and mangle the slot. --- NOTE: I strongly suggest you disassemble the lamp for the first time while the lamp and you are both sitting on the floor with several layers of towels under the lamp!!! , I can tell you stories of broken lenses that I dropped on the floor before I figured out how to take a lamp apart!!! -- Often times the lens will be stuck to the lamp; sometimes from soot and “lamp gunk” and sometimes from calking that the “Lamp Tender” used to seal up air gaps in the lamp around the lens. Ideally there should be a thin rubber gasket between the lens and the lamp, but often these are either old and crumbling or missing altogether. An aging gasket can also “glue” the lens to the lamp body. For collector purposes, gaskets are nice, but not absolutely needed when you replace the lens. If you don't have a gasket, don't worry about it. -- If the lens does not freely and readily come out of the lamp, squirt some more WD-40 around the edges of the lens and let it stand for a while. I’ve used twigs or Pop-Sickle sticks to gently wiggle and pry the edges of the lens to get them unstuck, BUT be VERY CAREFUL as if there are any cracks in the lens, they can easily be broken into pieces when being removed. ---- .... Red Beard  Posted Tuesday, November 19, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. The above is good advice and should work. I'll add my little bit to it. Sometimes the screw on the coupling ring is just too rusty. I'll use a wire wheel on Dremel tool while wearing safety goggles to clean the end of the screw so the oil, I use PB Blaster, can penetrate better. If it's really rusty, I'll use a small cut off wheel or diamond bit in the Dremel, again with safety goggles, to cut the screw. I'd rather destroy a $.50 screw than break a $5.00 coupling ring. While a gasket isn't always needed, sometimes the ring lens combo may be a pretty loose fit. In that a case I use a bit of finger tip caulk to keep the lens from rattling around. It peels off in nice round beads that will conform to gap and is easy to remove if you need to. Don't use too much, or you may put too much pressure on the lens and risk breakage. Link 1  Posted Wednesday, November 20, 2013 by JFR

 Q2651 Adlake Non-sweating RR Lamp  Yes, I always thought that the three green lenses and the one red lens were added years later, to this lamp, because they have swirls or circles inside the glass or plastic lenses. But to my great surprise I just looked on the internet and saw that the ones showed, Had the exact green and red lenses as my lamp has. My lamp is the largest of anyone else's that I just saw. Can you tell me more about my RR lamps lenses? I think they're made out of plastic. Does that sound right? I'm guessing that this lamp was made back in the 1960's. It looks like they're selling in fair cond, for about two to three hundred dollars. Again, please let me know if these lamp lenses should be plastic or glass. Thank you.  Posted Tuesday, November 19, 2013 by AF   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  AF; again, a photo is needed to give you a 100% accurate answer. ---- Please write back and describe in detail what you mean by “they have swirls or circles inside the glass or plastic lenses” ---- If it came with 3 Green and 1 Red lens, it may well be a Marker Lamp. If you send a photo showing the side profile so the BOTTOM of the lamp is clearly visible, I could give you a pretty good idea as to if it is a Marker, Switch Lamp or something else. --- Regarding Glass or Plastic; thump on the individual lenses with your fingernail or lightly tap with the handle of a kitchen spoon. The sound will clearly identify the lenses as either plastic or glass; glass will have a much harder, sharper sound to it. Individual lenses were made either of plastic or of glass, and a lamp could have both plastic and glass lenses mixed in it due to replacements by the railroad. -- I’m not sure what you mean when you say “they have swirls or circles inside the glass or plastic lenses”. Any such marks would NOT indicate if the lenses were or were not original to the lamp. Original equipment lenses and replacement lenses were IDENTICAL (unlike parts for your car that you buy at the auto parts store). -- In service, lamp lenses were frequently broken in day to day service and had to be repalced by the railroad. -- There were only a few makers of lenses, either glass or plastic, and lamps came from their manufacturer with lenses from these few lens makers; AND, the railroads bought replacement lenses either from the lamp manufacturer as replacement parts, or directly from the lens manufacturer, BUT they were still the same lenses from the same few lens makers. There were no aftermarket “knock-offs”, as there are in auto parts. --- All the major Lamp Manufacturers, (Adlake, Dressel, Handlan) would ship lamps “new in the box” with any lens the railroad asked for; glass Fresnel, plastic Fresnel, or the Plastic “Waffle” style from Stimsonite. --- As lenses needed to be replaced, the railroad would often slap anything of the right color and size into the lamp that they had handy, regardless of style material or manufacturer. It didn't make any difference to the railroad, as long as it was the right color. To me, that makes the lamp all the more interesting and authentically "Railroad" --- It’s now about 40 years since the time when railroads stopped using kerosene lamps, so any lens, either original equipment, railroad replacement, or a lens replaced by a collector decades ago but well after railroad use, are going to have quite a bit of dust, soot, and age related accumulation on them, making the originality of the glass to the lamp very hard to determine in many circumstances. ---- Send us a photo!!!!! Also: look through the various pages on "Link 1" and see if your lamp is pictured there and LET US know what you find! thanks for the question. ----- .... Red Beard  Link 1  Posted Tuesday, November 19, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. There are knock off plastic lens around that look and fit like originals. However, they have slightly different coloring. The green is a true green rather than the traditional teal/signal green (General Signals does offer a similar green as well the railroad signal green) and the red has an orange tint to it. They have no manufacturer's markings. They are typically found in some Handlan Railfinders lamps made for the hobby market back in the 1980's, but hobbyists have been known to swap parts from lamp to lamp. Plastic lens used in the railroad industry will be marked from General Signals, WRRS (Western RR Supply, now Western-Cullen Hayes), or HLP (Hiram L. Piper) on Canadian lamps. You can buy new lenses from General Signals.  Link 1  Posted Wednesday, November 20, 2013 by JFR

A. Just a quick clarification, I was referring to the most common style optical plastic lenses. Not spredlite, reflex or partial reflex plastic lenses. Posted Wednesday, November 20, 2013 by JFR

 Q2649 Lamp ID Needed  I have an hand held lamp that I need help identifying. I've attached a couple photographs of it including stamped names and insignias. I would like to know if it was used and is exactly what I think it is. Thank you so much for your time, it is very appreciated!  [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Saturday, November 16, 2013 by JP   Post a Reply  Email a reply

 Q2647 Melon-shaped Globes  Are melon shaped globes easy or difficult to find?? I realize it depends on the railroad. What was their purpose since both shapes, melon and pear were available at that time. Thank you.  Posted Saturday, November 16, 2013 by Keith   Post a Reply  Email a reply

 Q2646 Adlake Kero  I have been reading over the information provided [on Kero's] and am curious as to why on a lantern that I have the 'Y' in the KCT.RY is capitalized? Is this a sign of a fake? I am familiar with the meaning of numbers on the bottom '2-62', the second quarter in the year of 62'. This sparks another question. This seems to me to be a Version 4, so the years do not match up. This is all new to me so I am sorry if I am wrong on anything. I have about 15 lanterns and I feel this one has me questioning myself. Thank you!!!  Posted Wednesday, November 13, 2013 by SB   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  Is the lettering embossed into the metal or stamped with a steel stamp set? If it is embossed lettering I would not worry about a fake. I am looking at two Newburgh and South Shore Railway Adlake Kero lanterns right now. One is from 1/36 and the other is from 1/57. The size of the embossed N&SS RY lettering on the older one is much smaller,maybe 3/16", than the newer one which is 1/2". But in both cases the "Y" in RY is upper case-capitalized. And if you are worried about the 1964/65 date for the improvements that were made between a version 3 and a version four note that the article in the Railroadiana Library says "about 1964 or 65". My 1957 N&SS RY has some of those differences but not all of them that are on the later versions. The links are for the pages from the Library which explain the differences over the years in Kero lanterns.  Link 1  Link 2  Posted Friday, November 15, 2013 by KM

A.  And now that I am thinking about it, if the "Y" on the older lantern had been lower case with that small size to begin with it would have been practically invisible, so maybe the upper case lettering was a practice that carried over from that. Posted Friday, November 15, 2013 by KM

A. I just now read this. The lettering is embossed. Ok, I am understanding. I have just seen many of the y's in lower case and was just questioning the authenticity. Thank you for all of your help! I greatly appreciate it!  Posted Wednesday, November 20, 2013 by SB

 Q2641 Green/Clear Short Globes  At the Gaithersburg 2008 show [see link] there are two pictures of signal green over clear short globes. Are these recently made for show or are they authentic early period globes? I do not mean to offend the owner of these globes. Thank you  Posted Friday, November 8, 2013 by Keith  Link 1     Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. The're fakes Posted Friday, November 8, 2013 by BK

A. Thank you. They look nicely made, BUT. Thank you Keith Posted Friday, November 8, 2013 by Keith

 Q2640 Lamp Info Needed  I recently purchased a Dressel switch lamp at an estate auction. After examining it I had some concerns regarding whether all the parts were original. The electrical cable did not seem to be as 'aged' as the rest of the lantern, and each of the four lenses had the word 'TOP' printed in white lettering at the top of each lens. Is this typical for the lenses? Is there any way to date the lantern?   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Monday, November 4, 2013 by Incognito   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  The lenses are plastic and may be made by Stimsonite. Stimsonite has been around since the early 1950's. See Q 560 and Q2441 in the Archives. This lamp may be the "flat top electric" model 1203 from Dressel. Posted Tuesday, November 5, 2013 by KM

A. Looks authentic to me. Cords age or get damaged in use and are replaced as needed. The previous owner may have put a lighter duty household cord on it. The lenses are typical for this style of lamp. Most likely from the 50's or 60's. I'd be more interested in the lamp's railroad markings, if any. If you haven't already, check the inside of the mounting socket for RR initials that are usually cast in there.  Posted Thursday, November 7, 2013 by JFR

A. Inside the mounting socket are the initials NYC, so Im guessing its New York Central Posted Saturday, November 9, 2013 by RSJ

A. Are there any online sources available to find out more about the aforementioned Dressel "flat top electric Model 1203?" I've struck out on internet searches, and all the catalogs are out of print. Posted Saturday, November 9, 2013 by RSJ (aka Incognito)

A.  My source for the 1203 model number was "The Illustated Encyclopedia of Railroad Lighting,Volume Two-The Railroad Signal Lamp",by Richard C. Barrett, pages 199,244,and 246. Barrett said his source for the Dressel info was catalogs from 1917,1918,1919,1927,1946 and 1947. He does not say that these lamps were from 1946 or 1947 catalogs but I think that it is a pretty good guess that they were made after that time and that your lamp may have had the plastic lenses from the factory. The model number that includes the day targets is 1203 1/2, Dressel used the 1/2 to indicate the day targets on many of their lamps. If the lamp had been made of stainless steel the model number would be 2203. I have not seen a source on the web for Dressel catalogs either. Posted Saturday, November 9, 2013 by KM

 Q2636 Military Dietz Lantern?  I have a Dietz Vesta Lantern. The person I purchased it from said it is a military lantern. I do not see any military initials anywhere. On the bottom of the lantern painted in white are the number and letters 212th. On the lid of the lantern near the side are the a number of dates. The most recent is S-3-1945. Do you know if this is a military lantern? If not could you tell me what this lantern was used for? Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Thursday, October 31, 2013 by JV   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. If it was military it would have at least a "US" stamped into the metal. Sounds like an unmarked commercial Vesta made for the non RailRoad civilian market at the dietz factory at Syracuse NY in March 1945. Posted Friday, November 1, 2013 by DR

A. Hi, in addition to the post by DR, I have seen many Dietz Vesta lanterns produced under contract for the U.S. military services, and most are not marked so but a few are, The U.S. Navy seems to have preferred the all brass version marked Navy Standard Deck Lantern and some are marked U.S.N., while most others are the regular Vesta with a government marked globe, examples include, U.S., U.S.M.D., U.S.A. etc. There have been some rare examples of tops marked U.S.M.C. and U.S.L.S (on a soldered on tag) observed also. Some of these government contract lanterns were produced with extra reinforcing uprights around the base made of thicker gauge wire and a special screw in threaded burner instead of the standard bayonet catch style. Yours appears to be a standard Vesta as DR suggests. The painted on 212th could have been added at any time and shouldn't be considered provenance enough of military use. The final mark, S-3-45 does however indicate manufacture at the Syracuse factory in March of 1945, the rest are patent dates which apply to methods of construction or design of the lantern. In spite of the fact these "New Vesta" lanterns are very common and not worth much at auction, they are one of the best made R.R. lanterns ever in my opinion. The fact that so many were purchased and have survived is testament to their quality of construction and Made in the U.S.A.is something to be proud of too. Posted Friday, November 1, 2013 by W.M.

A.  See Q1665 and Q740 in the Archives.  Posted Saturday, November 2, 2013 by KM

 Q2633 Monon Adlake Lantern  I have a Monon lantern ready for restoration. The globe that came with it was a C&O globe. Is there any historical connection with this globe on a Monon lantern?? Or would it be better to use a Monon named globe that I have?? Thank you.  Posted Monday, October 28, 2013 by Keith   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  Restoration?? ..I always cringe when I hear words like “restoration” and the question I lead with is “restore to what?”. If you want a lamp that looks brand new, right out of the box, you can still buy “brand new” Kero lanterns from Adlake. It will look nice, it will look new and like it has NO history behind it (because it doesn’t) To me, something that is demonstrably connected to actual Railroad use is far more interesting. I’ve said this before; Model Railroaders and Railroadiana collectors are an odd lot... A modeler will go out and buy a beautifully painted and lettered boxcar for 30-some dollars, take it home and cover it up with all sorts of paints, stains and pigments to make it look like it survived World War III and call it “Weathered” so it looks like a real, in service, railcar as it might appear after a number of years out in the elements. -- Then there are Railroadiana Collectors who get a real piece of history, be it lamp, lantern, sign or whatever, which has years of irreplaceable, natural and historical “weathering” on it and what do they do??; they take it home and strip all the (again, irreplaceable) layers of history off of it, down to bare metal or wood and hose it down with a spray can of KRYLON trying to make it look like it has never been used and has no real history or connection to actual railroad use behind it. (Yes, I have done both, ..and yes, we are an odd lot) ------ ----- Now, as to the historical connection: -- TE, I thought you’d jump in on this, being the resident MONON authority! -- My guess; someone aquired that lantern body sans globe and stuck the first globe in it they found: but... The Monon merged into the Louisville & Nashville Railroad in 1971. Going back to 1902, the Atlantic Coast Line railroad had acquired 35% of L&N stock. Also in 1971, Seaboard Coast Line (combination of Seaboard & Atlantic Coast Line) purchased all the remainder of the outstanding shares of Louisville & Nashville stock; so the L&N became the wholly-owned subsidiary of Seaboard Coast Line Industries. This meant that the old Monon was now part of Seaboard Coast Line. -- Meanwhile: Chessie System incorporated in Virginia in 1973; this brought together the C&O, B&O and Western Maryland. On November 1, 1980, Chessie System merged with Seaboard Coast Line Industries to form CSX Corporation. -- That’s a long chain of events bringing the Monon and the C&O together; but, yes, there is a connection. The question is; were any kerosene lanterns in use on any part of CSX past 1980 such that the railroad might have actually paired the two pieces? ..that’s pretty late. -- Can any kerosene use experts chime in here?? -- State by state, some State Railroad Commissions (now Public Utility Commissions) mandated that within their state railroads had to use kerosene lanterns for night time hand signals as you could refill your kerosene lantern before every shift and KNOW it would burn for your whole shift. With battery lanterns, you never knew how much ‘juice’ was left in the battery and if it would go out in the middle of your shift. Railroads being penny pinchers insisted that employees run the battery down all the way before turning it in for a new one (batteries, like kerosene, were provided at no charge to the crews for their lanterns) For safety, it was critical that train crews and switchmen have a light source that wouldn’t go out in the middle of their shift. Railroads were notorious for valuing dollars much more than they did the safety of their employees. -- Railroad management would literally risk a man’s life to save a dollar!! (one of the uglier footnotes to their history) -- State Railroad Commissions took note of this and in some states, mandated that kerosene hand lanterns HAD to be used well into the 1960s and 1970s; ...past 1980??, I don’t know ..anyone??? ----- ....Red Beard  Posted Friday, November 1, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Hey Red Beard! You are right in that I should have jumped all over this. I've been around the Monon a lot over the years and still cross over the CSX tracks that now operate it. I went to Purdue and you know the legend about how they got the nickname Boilermakers was that in the late 1800's, they were going over to the Monon shops and hiring a couple of big thug steel workers to play football on Saturday afternoon for $5 a game and all the beer they could drink if they won. Great motivation for guys who probably really hated College students in that era. The truth is on the Monon post is that I read it quickly and didn't put much thought into an answer but thanx for thinking of me. You covered things extremely well as you usually do. I will pay closer attention to anything in the future that mentions MONON. Posted Friday, November 1, 2013 by TE

A. Don't worry gentlemen, I am not going to strip down the lantern and make it new and shiny. I do clean the soot from the chimney and clean it along with the spring. Chemically this will cause problems over the years. I also check for any other problem areas that would lessen the lantern structurally over a period of time. Krylon, please! There is one type of spray that is used by museums as a protector on non wood antiques. It's called Permalac, for metal only, indoors or out. It is non-noticeable. This was designed for antique special purposes and can be easily removed. The C&O globe I thought was doubtful so I will use my "Monon Route" globe. Thank you Keith  Posted Friday, November 1, 2013 by Keith

 Q2632 Rusted Fount  I need help in getting a rusted fount separated from a railroad lantern...if anyone has any tricks they can share it would much appreciated.  Posted Monday, October 28, 2013 by Jerry   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Please state condition in more detail on fount holder, fount and condition of lower part of lantern. There is a safe way. The first thing you my try is soaking lower part in hot water. Try this before any chemical is treatment is suggested. Thank you. Posted Tuesday, October 29, 2013 by Keith

 Q2625 New Adlake GLobes  Since authentic globes are available from Adlake, they will also initial the globes with authentic railroad initials as the older globes were etc. Are these globes still considered authentic but of course not period authentic?? They are initialed via laser. I would like some expert opinions on this matter. This may be a modern technique but reproduced for older historical collections. Thank you  Posted Sunday, October 20, 2013 by Keith   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. NO ! Posted Sunday, October 20, 2013 by BK

A. BK & Keith; this is getting into an area I have little information on. I have seen modestly priced KOPP “Fish Bowl” style short globes [3.25” x 3.25”] for sale on the net. Please offer some additional information... Are you saying that ADLAKE is currently having runs of globes made? ...and that they are offering them with etched road initials a’la 50 years ago??? (remembering that ADLAKE has never “made” globes, but rather had them made by Corning or KOPP: KOPP supposedly now being in possession of the old Corning moulds for both globes and Fresnel lenses) --- Are they also making tall globes??? -- Any information would be helpful. Please take a minute and write as much as you can on this subject. When you say "NO" I'm not clear as to what you are saying "NO" to. I can't think of a way to distinguish a "new" globe from an "old" globe if they both came out of the same original mould... Thanks, --- ....Red Beard Posted Monday, October 21, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Adlake is also selling globes made by KOPP for their short globe lantern which they still make, Adlake 300. The globes are authentic. But at their factory they will take the KOPP globe and laser initial the railroad name tith the correct initials. This apparently is NOT authentic but would be considered remanufactured. Looks nice but NO. The globes are real the rest is not. This is what I wanted to double check on. Thank you Keith  Posted Monday, October 21, 2013 by Keith

A. From my casual observations, the colored KOPP globes Adlake now sells are a little different from vintage production. The new production globe's colors don't seem as rich as the originals and if you hold them up to a bright light, an "orange peel" effect is visible. Also, it seems the K in the trademark, often weak, no longer floats within the circle, but seems to intersect the circle at the K's four corners. Since the trademark seems a little different, perhaps these new globes that I'm describing aren't even made by KOPP. Any one else notice similar traits on these new colored globes? Posted Tuesday, October 22, 2013 by JFR

A. I purchased an amber short globe from Adlake approximately 12 years ago when there tin coated #300s were $56.00 and still have it. The globe is completely unmarked, the color is uneven with light areas and dark areas. Didn't like it then and don't like it now. I've always suspected the globe was made in China but have no information to that effect.  Posted Wednesday, October 23, 2013 by GC

A. First I think this area would make a good seminar type class at a railroad show. It should be at least an hour with technical handouts. Much of the early globes made in the USA used a lot of techniques from English glass makers. Alas much of the pigments nowadays are considered hazardous. China does make globes but the ones I have seen are good in color but misshapen and made of thin spun glass. More research is required. Thank you, Keith  Posted Wednesday, October 23, 2013 by Keith

 Q2620 RR Lantern?  I have a great lantern and it looks like it would be RR but I don't have enough information to be sure. There are no markings on this anywhere that I have been able to locate. It has hinges and was very well designed to allow it to stand when it is 'unfolded' and folds back up to be carried. It would be wonderful if someone has some info on this. Thank you.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, October 2, 2013 by KW   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. I don't see a burner or a wick in this or any way to hold a chimney. Is it a candle lamp with a plate for the candle and a spring in the tube that pushes it up as it burns? I don't think it was used on a railroad, my thought is maybe theater stage lighting in a small theater.  Posted Friday, October 4, 2013 by KM

A. Sorry I should have included that info - it does burn a candle. I did not think of it being used in a theater. Thank you. Posted Saturday, October 5, 2013 by kw

 Q2618 Brass Inspector's Lamp  Here is a run of the mill Dietz Acme Inspector Lamp but this one is made of brass. Not brass plating. Stamped PRR on the handle inside the keystone. I know there were a few made in brass for marine or harsh environments but I haven't seen one stamped for a RR. Just looking for additional info. Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, September 29, 2013 by JG   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. The PRR also had a fleet of tug boats and other minor surface vessels for use around and about the Great Lakes areas. Without doing some detailed research I cannot pinpoint anything specifically. Remember, tug boats and other surface flat boat cargo had to be inspected. I would also e-mail the PRR historical society. Thank you Keith Posted Friday, October 11, 2013 by Keith

 Q2613 Lantern Info Needed  Would like any info you might have on this lantern. Has trade triplex mark, has GEO.B.carpenter patented marking. Not interested in price but what it is and used for. Thanks,   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Monday, September 16, 2013 by Sharon   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. It is a waterway navigation marker light; used to mark bridges, pilings, etc. to warn boats. This general kind of lamp was used when RR's crossed waterways, but also used wherever structures needed to be marked were on a waterway.  Posted Monday, September 16, 2013 by RJMc

A.  George B.Carpenter & Co. was a ship chandler in Chicago. They probably were the dealer and not the manufacturer of this marine lamp. The Triplex trade mark was used by National Marine Lamp Co. and refers to the patented special design of the lenses. National Marine used a brass tag and they may have put a different tag on lamps with their dealers names if they bought enough of them. The link has a photo of the George B.Carpenter building taken in 1893. I don't think this lamp is that old though because National Marine was around from 1906 to 1937 and the Triplex patent is from around 1910 to 1912. It is possible that another manufacturer of marine lamps may have used the trade mark after National went out of business.  Link 1  Posted Saturday, September 21, 2013 by KM

 Q2611 Armspear Tall Lamp  Hello, I just acquired an Armspear lamp and was wondering if anyone had ever seen one like this and what it was used on? Unfortunately the top globe is missing so was wondering what type of globe it originally had? The top is marked Armspear Mfg. New York...the bottom part has spherodial lens..it is electric (or at least now it's electric). Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Thursday, September 12, 2013 by JM   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Probably the most common use for a lamp such as yours would be for waterway navigation, where the 360-degree coverage makes sense; green above red would mark a drawbridge. Many manufacturers produced over/under combinations. Althugh the Armspear section of Vol. II, Encyclopedia of Railroad Lighting does not show a lamp like this, the listings are not comprehensive. On some of the navigation lights the lighted color would change according to whether the bridge was open or closed. Your lamp has a very heavy-duty fixed conduit mount and looks like it was always electric, which would be consistent with the navigation kind of use -- rather than being hung up in the air on some kind of railroad signal. Such lamps were used on railroad bridges over waterways, so it might still be a 'railroad' lamp, even tho used to signal to boats or ships rather than trains.  Posted Friday, September 13, 2013 by RJMc

A.  There is a 1933 Armspear catalog posted in the Railroadiana Library which shows their bridge lights. The link is for the electric spheroidal duplex lamp which is similar to this. They note that changes can be made as needed or specified by the customer. The catalog drawing has more protection around the globes than your lamp has. The link shows the page for the du[lex lamp. Link 1  Posted Sunday, September 15, 2013 by KM

 Q2610 Adlake Marker Light Colors  I enjoyed your site! I am an HO model railroader and just discovered the Tomar Industries classification lights for use on cabooses and passenger cars. My interest is caboose applications. My problem is that there are two versions available (red-amber-amber and red-green-green) and I need some advice on which to use for several applications. I need to find out which version would be appropriate for the following railroads: Erie, Southern Pacific, DMIR, LS&I, D&RGW (I have seen a D&RGW on the web which is Red-Amber-Amber, so I guess that’s settled). I would very much appreciate any light you could shed (yes, that's a lantern pun) on the subject. Best regards,  Posted Thursday, September 12, 2013 by AM   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Erie used redgreengreen Posted Thursday, September 12, 2013 by BK

A. This link shows an LS&I kerosene marker lamp that was sold on eBay and then shown on Worthpoint. There are 4 photos of it if you click in on them. It shows red and green lenses. depending on what period you are modeling the railroad may have changed thise colors over the years. A good source for this info might be Employee Rule Books from the Operating Departments of those roads and some of those might be available at the various RR historical societies.  Link 1  Posted Friday, September 13, 2013 by KM

A. The S.P. and the DM&IR would both be Red - Green - Green ; and Yes, the D&RGW would be Red - Yellow - Yellow. "Amber" shows up in model railroad literature frequently, though the railroads always called signals "Yellow" ; ...those are pretty cool little lights, aren't they?? You'll love how they look on your cabooses. -- Utah Pacific (now a Tomar line) used to make an illuminated Switch Lamp on a stand that was magical when lit up. ..write to them and ask them to bring those back too! ---- ....Red Beard Posted Saturday, September 14, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Hi My DM&IR caboose marker lamp has one red and three green lenses, as does my Duluth Missabe & Northern caboose marker lamp, so they are consistent. (The DM & N is a DM & IR predecessor railroad for those who don't know.) Regarding the LS & I lamp mentioned above. I'm the one that sold it on ebay and am glad to see it lives on the web far beyond its ebay life span. I got it from a Michigan antique store and always wondered if the lens colors were accurate or if some previous collector had perhaps restored it with whatever was at hand. I cleaned and painted it and put the lenses back in the way it came to me. Anyway it sold for $515 and as I thought it would, went to a collector in Michigan.  Posted Friday, September 27, 2013 by JEM

 Q2609 Mars lev Kol #134 light  Does anyone know where this particular light was used on railroads during the 1930's? Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, September 4, 2013 by JH   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  I think that Mars Signal Light Company from Chicago was founded around 1936. They sold headlight and rear marker lights to the railroads and also emergency lighting for police and fire vehicles. Every Mars light that I have seen for both railroad and emergency vehicle use has a tag with the full company name, the model number and most of the time a serial number and patent informamtion. Mars' chief selling point was the oscillating motion of the bulb or reflector which does attract attention and their motto "The Light From Mars" was derived from that. Does this light have any motor in it that would cause the reflector to move or oscillate? This light does not look like any that I have seen on railroad or antique fire equipment. It has a European look to me and maybe it was cobbled up or kit-bashed together by someone. The links are for the Wikipedia article on Mars Signal Light Co. and for a Trainweb.org article that includes some Mars catalog pages that show railroad headlights and rear marker lights. Send in a photo of the tag on this if you can. Sometimes Mars' model numbers can denote the purpose of the unit and the number and color of the bulbs that were used but the numbers that you provided don't make sense to me. Link 1  Link 2  Posted Thursday, September 5, 2013 by KM

A. Looking at photos subsequently appearing on internet auction sites, the tag on this lamp is 'Marslev' -- all one word. I am not sure if that is a manufacturer or an employee name, and also not sure what the KOL 134 means. This appears to be a 3 color European trackwalker's lamp, rather than a real Mars light from the Mars Signal Light Company. Posted Sunday, September 8, 2013 by KM

A.  See Q2160 in the Archives which is about a similar lamp which came from the UK. I am not sure if it is related, but Marslev is the name of a town in Denmark. This lamp has been electrocuted (and hopefully someone else won't be!), i.e. the kerosene burner has been removed and a household light bulb and lamp cord with the switch hanging out have been put in it. That leaves the wiring exposed which is not safe and it should not be left that way. Selling this lamp in this condition might expose the seller to some liability if an accident were to happen. And since this thing is for sale right now internationally who knows what the liability might be in a foreign country?  Posted Sunday, September 8, 2013 by KM

 Q2601 MM Buck Lamp  I recently acquired a M. M. Buck & Co., St. Louis, MO. kerosene lamp. I know your site is about lanterns; but apparently Buck made lamps as well. Do you have any information on the Buck lamp? Was it used on rail cars or was it a merchandising item? Thank you for your time and for any light you can shed on the Buck lamp.  Posted Thursday, August 29, 2013 by JM   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  M M Buck went through several name changes and merged with Handlan. They used M M Buck and Co. from 1872 to 1895 so that may give you an idea of the age of this. If it is that old we would really like a photo of it. See Q1870 in the Archives for a short list of the M M Buck, Handlan Buck name changes and when they occurred.  Posted Saturday, August 31, 2013 by KM

A.  Send in a photo or give us a better description of this lamp. Is it a lamp that was used in a room or railroad car? Or is it a switch lamp or marker light? Does it have a clear chimney or colored lenses and how big is it? We would like to help you but "lamp" has too many meanings when it comes to railroad items. The link is for the Lamp page in the Library of this site and it shows switch, marker, classification, train order and some other variations of signal lamps. It does not show lamps that were used for lighting a station or railroad car.  Link 1  Posted Saturday, August 31, 2013 by KM

 Q2600 Patent dates for RR Lanterns?  All that I have on the bottom of a BTBB lantern (no RR name and no mfg name) is the stamped date 'pat. Aug. 31,1875'. Is there a listing of patent dates for RR lanterns? Kirkland has dates for tubular lanterns, not RR lanterns. Any help appreciated.  Posted Thursday, August 29, 2013 by RL   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. There is a list titled "Selected Lantern Patents" in "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Railroad Lighting,Volume One-The Railroad Lantern." That shows only one patent nmuber 167269 issued to T.B. Osborne on 8/31/1875 for the clips that fasten the guard wires. You can look up that patent in Google Patent Search and see if the clips on your lantern are the same.  Posted Friday, August 30, 2013 by KM

A. Check Q2187,1755,and 858 in the Archives for more information on Undrhill & Osborne.  Posted Friday, August 30, 2013 by KM

A. Thanks for the info. I looked up the patent and yes,mine looks like the illustration. Now Ill through out another question. While waiting for Q&A, I saw a lantern on e-bay near identical except it had a glass font with whale oil burner, and mine has a tin font with the old style flat wick holder without the adjuster wheel needing a tool to pull up the wick. The e-bay lantern had the same pat. date stamped PLUS it was stamped F O Dewey & Sons.--so how do I determine if mine is an unpictured (in volune 1) Underhill & Osborne& Co with their pat date, or an unmarked F O Dewey&Sons with the same pat date? Posted Friday, August 30, 2013 by DrL

 Q2599 Boesch Lamp  I believe this to be a depot lamp but info on Boesch lamps is scarce at best. Any information would be appreciated. I found this one in the San Francisco area. Thank you   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Tuesday, August 20, 2013 by JG   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. See Q1003 in the Archives which has some history of Boesch Lamp Co. They were manufacturers as well as jobbers for other companie's products. I had some contact with a surviving relative of Emile Boesch. He held about a dozen patents so it may be possible to look up the patent for this lamp if it was his.  Posted Wednesday, August 21, 2013 by KM

A. It's a Boesch lamp as it is marked as such. Dressel had a similar lamp so maybe there were ties there. Posted Wednesday, August 21, 2013 by JG

A. I tried a patent search and did not come up with the one for this lamp. Emile Boesch also used Emil Boesch so you have to search both names and that in not a typo in the patent because that is the way he signed his name also. The link is for Lampguild Q 6175 in their Archives which shows a Boesch street lamp. And while searching for the patent I came across the patent for the smoker's stand ash tray from Q1003, #1,670,525 issued to Edwin Savery, 5/22/1928, assigned to Boesch Lamp Company. That date is after the 1920 company closing date mentioned in the earlier question. Savery was the Boesch Lamp Company President and he held other patents also.  Link 1  Posted Wednesday, August 21, 2013 by KM

 Q2598 Electric Adlake Non Sweating Balanced Draft lamp  Can someone tell me what was an ELECTRIC ADLAKE Non Sweating Balanced Draft lamp? Where was it used, what color were the the lenses, etc. How rare we're they? Etc..... Thanks,  Posted Sunday, August 18, 2013 by JH   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. It's probably a kerosene burning lamp that was converted to electric capacity at some time. A pic would help. The lens color would vary with use and style of the lamp.  Posted Monday, August 19, 2013 by TE

A. Here's a photo. Link 1  Posted Tuesday, August 20, 2013 by JH

A. It's a motor car lamp. Kerosene burning, red lens. Posted Wednesday, August 21, 2013 by TE

A. Hi T.E. By 'motor car' do you mean automobile, or in the RR sense, such as 'Fairmont Motor Car' commonly called 'speeders'? I have recently seen descriptions of kerosene lamps made especially for use on speeders as either headlights or markers. These were smaller and lighter than regular train or trolley lamps. Just one more possibility to add to the list in trying to figure these things out, 50 or more years later! Posted Wednesday, August 21, 2013 by RJMc

A. I've heard and read that both automobile (i.e., mostly) trucks as rear end lights AND railroad track cars but I've had trouble verifying this. In the era these were initially made, the term motor car could have meant either or. I'd gladly like any other info that someone else might have on the matter.  Posted Thursday, August 22, 2013 by TE

A.  The link shows the battery operated versions of Fairmont motor car lanterns. These lanterns are similar to fire department apparatus lanterns made by Grether or Harris, but the Fairmont lanterns have the Fairmont name on the top of the lamp. Link 1  Posted Saturday, August 24, 2013 by KM

A. I went back and looked again at Barrett and Gross's Vol II of the Encyc. of RR Lighting. They make 'Railway Motor Car Lamps' a separate category and address that category for each mfrs. listings. Adlake, Handlan, and Dressel each show one or more models. They explain that starting in 1917 the State of Illinois (and probably other states) by law required any RR speeders and/or section cars and/or motor cars operating at night to have a headlight visible for at least 300 feet, so that certainly created a market. The models they illustrate are from the 1920 time frame, and are smaller than the other standard lamps and most of them have more of the highway style slipon or set screw brackets, rather than the standard RR shoe-type mount. The mfgrs. catalogs show lamps intended both for headlight (clear lens) and marker use (red lens) on RR motor cars. The Adlake lamp shown in this question is not illustrated as a motor car lamp, but it is a later style which would certainly fit the general description of a lamp intended for motor car service. Somewhat unfortunately, as I mentioned above, these lamps are very similar to items sold for highway vehicle use. So unless there are RR markings or known history, its hard to pin down almost 100 years later.......  Posted Saturday, August 24, 2013 by RJMc

 Q2595 Lamp Info Needed  I have a lamp here I want you to take a look at and tell me if you have seen one before? This lantern has no markings on it except the letters SL1Z are on the base? I did not remove the lens on one side, my girlfriend bought it like that! I would like to know who used them and what company made them? My plan is to fix the missing lens and skirt to restore it! Any info you can give me would be great or point me in right direction? I would like to know who made it and who used it! Someone gave me this information: On page 327 of 'The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Railroad Lighting, Volume Two, The Railroad Switch Lamp' (by Richard Barrett) an identical lamp appears – but it is described as 'an unmarked switch lamp' and shown in the 'Unknown maker' section . Unfortunately, even Mr. Barrett, an authority on railroad lighting, could not identify the maker, either. We’ve not been able to find any other printed information about them. As much information you can give me would be great!!! Thank you!!!   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Friday, August 16, 2013 by GWR   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. What a terrific looking lamp! But just so you know, there is a cast iron mounting bracket with a triangular slot inside the "skirt." The "skirt" is not just an outer shell. We hope you can find parts and more information! Please post here if you do, and good luck!  Posted Wednesday, August 21, 2013 by JS

A. The design is similar to lanterns made by the Peter Gray Company of Boston, and looks like a 1880's design. On many occasions, RR's would modify / repair Peter Gray lanterns with parts made in the shops. Link 1  Posted Friday, February 14, 2014 by Joef

 Q2593 TRRA Marking  I have a Armspear Mfg. Red Globe Railroad Lantern New York NY pat Feb 2, 25. On the hood is embossed with T.R.R.A. Question is: what does the T.R.R.A. stand for??  Posted Monday, August 12, 2013 by Tom   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. TRRA is the Terminal RailRoad Association of St. Louis, MO., with operations also in nearby Illinois. It is a switching and terminal carrier which was formed and continues to be jointly owned by the various long-haul RR's entering the St. Louis terminal area. The long-haul RR's have often found it more efficient to pool their efforts, through terminal companies such as TRRA, rather than each carrier having to set up a major terminal organixation, separate bridges, separate pasenger stations, etc. An industry served by TRRA can send or receive cars from any of the main line RR's entering St. Louis without having to deal with every RR separately. See the Link for more info.  Link 1  Posted Monday, August 12, 2013 by RJMc

A. Forgot about a fifth NYC line coming in from the East know as the "Peanut Line". Some locals would not forgive that omission. :) Posted Sunday, August 18, 2013 by JFR

A. Speaking of the TRRA: Here’s a little tidbit rarely mentioned regarding St Louis as a rail center; St Louis was one of the largest rail centers in the country: (#1 Chicago; #2 St Louis/E. St Louis; #3 Kansas City; #4 Minneapolis - St Paul; #5 Omaha - Council Bluffs) Most of the yards are on the Illinois side (East St Louis). TRRA officed in St Louis, MO as they didn’t want to be anywhere near the East St Louis Yards where most of the operation was. If you ever want to go watch trains in East St Louis, ...DON’T!! -- It is one of the most dangerous cities in the US and certainly more dangerous than any other rail center in the country. -- In the 1960s & early 1970s at least one railroad Special Agent (Yard Bull) among the various roads, was killed in the line of duty every year!! In those days, the Special Agents in East St Louis routinely carried fully automatic weapons (light machine guns) and generally two hand guns as well, often with one in a clip-on holster that could be transferred to the sun visor in their car for faster access while parked or driving; as they routinely met up with murderous armed and organized gangs breaking into cars. The gangs were sophisticated enough that they had figured out which cars were consistently assigned to expensive merchandise and from time to time they were able to bribe or coerce yard clerks into tipping them off to high class shipments coming through. They were sophisticated enough to where they would break into cars on slowly moving drags (sometimes TRRA movements) on stretches of track adjacent to ballast edge access roads. They would pace the opened boxcar with a pickup truck or van, bridge the space between the rail car and the truck with a walkway and unload merchandise from the train into the truck while the train was MOVING!!! This was usually done on curves where line of sight was short and it was harder spot what they were doing. -- To this day it is one of the highest crime rate cities in the US. --- ....Red Beard Posted Sunday, August 18, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Sorry to get a bit off topic here. I would agree Chicago and St. Louis are 1 and 2 of the largest railroad centers, but after that it gets a bit contentious. Take Buffalo-Niagara for example. The GTR/CN, TH&B/CPR, PM/C&O, CANSO/MC RR and Wabash/N&W coming in from Ontario. Four NYC lines, (RW&O, Falls Road, West Shore and NYC main), 2 PRR lines, 2 Erie lines, B&O, LV, DL&W, B&S, and NKP. Add to that 3 Terminal Lines, SB RY, BC RR, and NJ RY. Trackage rights also brought in the D&H, P&LE and NYS&W. Then further back, it was a terminal for the many of the railroad's Great Lakes Fleets. The Great Northern Ry built a huge grain elevator in Buffalo for that traffic. Trains magazine once referred to Buffalo as a "St. Louis of the East, or vice-versa". I would think Cincinnati deserves some consideration here as well. I guess the bottom line is what timeframe were these rankings done in. Mergers and abandonments have changed the landscape considerably. Posted Sunday, August 18, 2013 by JFR

 Q2592 Number 9 Semaphore Lamp  I'm an novice collector of railroad things and have a couple of questions concerning a semaphore lamp that I recently purchased. According to the 1907 allake catalog on your web site it shows a number 9 semaphore lamp like mine. My first question is will it hurt the lamp if it's repainted? It was repainted sometime ago and looks fairly good. Some pitting was covered with the new paint but I was told that it was completely glass beaded and primed before it was painted with the finil coat of gloss black. Would one want to leave it just the way it is if it looks pretty good? The next question I have is that the allake catalog say's it was shipped with two white 5 inch lenses probably just like the number 10 lamp. Currently it has none and I wish to get two sometime. Is this lamp suppose to have only white lenses or could it have any color variation as to what the railroad wanted or needed? Is a white lens considered the same as a clear lens? Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Posted Monday, August 12, 2013 by BK   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. BK; Welcome to the hobby. Yes, “White” is the same as clear. -- Do measure the lens opening before looking for lenses. Most likely it takes either a 5 inch or 5 & 3/8 inch lens. White/Clear lenses come up for sale on eBay from time to time. (If it takes a 4 & ½ inch lens you have something else; see below.) You will want to look under “Railroad Lens” and look twice a week until you find what you need. Lens bands or “coupling rings” that hold the lens to the lamp are offered from time to time as well. --- -- I’m going to ask you for some clarification; Does your lamp have one or two openings for lenses? If it has two; Are they 180° apart or are they 90° apart? If two lenses, you would want to stay with clear. -- If 180° apart, you have a Train Order Lamp. If 90° apart you have an Engine Classification Lamp; Either way, they would take clear lenses. -- If only one lens you have some options: If it is a semaphore lamp, it would take a clear/colorless lens; however that same style, single lens lamp was also used as a “Slow Order” signal (yellow lens) by track gangs or a “Resume Speed” signal with a green lens. -- see: Q1848 & Q2072 for additional discussion on these. If your lamp takes a 4 & ½ inch lens it is most likely a slow order lamp. -- NOTE: on the Lamp Page on this site there is some discussion about the Canadians using a lit yellow lamp with “Yard Limit” signs; All the research I’ve done shows no indication that the Canadians ever used Adlake lamps for that purpose (or at all, anywhere); apparently using H.L. Piper lamps exclusively. No US railroad used a yellow lamp in conjunction with Yard Limit signs; that was solely a Canadian practice. -- ---- Regarding Repainting: “Will repainting the lamp ‘Hurt It?’”; Functionally, no. --- Repainting the lamp will not affect the functioning of the lamp if you want to light it --- However; If a lamp is in weather-beaten but otherwise original condition with the original factory paint, I advise that collectors either leave it just as it is or lightly clean the lamp by washing it, in order to preserve the original condition of the lamp as much as possible! --- I keep harping on this as it is MY opinion that collectors are, day by day, destroying irreplaceable pieces of history by attempting to “restore” lamps. I also think the market will shift in decades to come, and original, un-restored, condition lamps will be in very high demand and fetch much higher prices than “restored” ones. (in the 1960s & 70s it was all the rage to bronze plate the things like baby shoes; a short sighted fad at best!!) -- --- Yours has already been repainted, so preserving the original, and historical, condition of the lamp isn’t an issue. --- The question on the table is “what would you like?” Do you like the appearance of the lamp as it is? ...would you prefer a duller look or something else? -- I DO suggest that you do nothing to it for a few years, as often times, a new collector’s ideas as to what they prefer will change over time as they gain more experience in the hobby. Later, you can always spray it with a coat of flat or semi-gloss paint if you’d like (but do sit with it for a while first) --- ..... Red Beard  Posted Sunday, August 18, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. First of all I would like to thank you Red Beard for the great reply to my questions. My lamp has two openings that are 180 deg. apart. It sounds as though that I need two clear lense's. On the sliding door it has a brass emblem that says Adams and Westlake company also. Is it a train order lamp? It sounds as though it is? Thanks for all the help and information and I will certainly do no painting for now. I have the coupling rings, etc. I measured the size of the holes and they are indeed 5" Dia. Many Thanks Red Beard. B.K. Posted Monday, August 19, 2013 by B.K.

A. B.K.; It took me a while to check back, so just now seeing your reply. Yes, it is most likely a Train Order Lamp and would take white/clear lenses. [this is a hobby where you never want to say "Never" as railroads were famous for coming up with pragmatic and irregular uses for lots of things] 5" lenses come along less frequently than 5 & 3/8", so you may have to keep searching for a while, but you will find some if you keep at it. --- ....Red Beard Posted Wednesday, September 4, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

 Q2591 B&O / CH&D Brasstop Lanterns  What is the background info on these 2 railroads’ ordering later model brass top lanterns from A&WCo? I believe they were both financially linked together? I see many of the same lanterns from these 2 roads have steel tops and a few had factory applied brass caps. The later B&O lanterns I see with the brass tops seem to always be the 1909 model. Were there other models from A&WCo used by them? The CH&DRR lantern I have is actually the 1913 model Reliable A&WCo. It was made with the normal steel fully marked Reliable cap and the factory put a fully marked brass cap over it. The B&ORR lantern was the 1909 Adams model. Was this one way that these railroads’ extended the life of their lanterns or was there an actual attempt to make them more pleasing to the eye? Railroads’ were generally frugal with their equipment and these lamps were as common then as the battery lanterns were to this day. Comments?  Posted Thursday, August 8, 2013 by DJB   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Bill Edson's Railroad Names shows CH&D as owned by B&O from 1910 to 1918, and mostly absorbed into the B&O after that.  Posted Thursday, August 8, 2013 by RJMc

 Q2588 'Reflector' Type Switch  Have you ever heard of a 'reflector' type switch? I saw one on E bay and I can't find any info on this. It has 4 lenses, 2 red and 2 green. Each lens is protected by a wire cage. On top, the Adlake name appears and the lamp spells out the color of each lens below. Any ideas or comments are appreciated.  Posted Wednesday, July 31, 2013 by JH   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Sounds like a description of an Adlake Reflex Switch lamp which had reflectors instead of lenses eliminating the need for an interior light source or possibly one converted to reflectors sold separately. They are shown here in the Articles and library section of this site. Here's a link to the page. see if this is your model.  Link 1  Posted Wednesday, July 31, 2013 by W.M.

 Q2585 CNR Globes  I have a question regarding Canadian Northern lamps vs. Canadian National lamps, more specifically the globes for these lamps. I recently acquired a tall globe lantern made by E.T. Wright from Hamilton, Ont. marked CNR with a patent date of 1908. The globe in my lantern is clear, with C.N.R cast in the glass. The 'R' on my globe is straight, but I have seen elsewhere CNR globes with the end of the R curving upwards forming a hook. I have a CNR lock with a similar curved R, which I was told is from Canadian Northern. Did the Canadian Northern use these curved Rs, and Canadian National switch to straight Rs? I noticed on the lantern surveys on your website there was a listing for both Canadian National and Canadian Northern globes, so how do you know if your globe is from Canadian National or Canadian Northern? I have also seen only curved Rs on globes marked for Canadian Government Railways. Any clarification on this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.  Posted Wednesday, July 24, 2013 by LV   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Just recently, an ET Wright tall globe Canadian Northern lantern marked CNO on the brim in large letters,sold thru EBAY. I would venture a guess that the globes would have also been embossed CNO,and maybe in a circle,as many Canadian tall globes were. I have seen embossed, marked tall CNR ,CPR,and CGR tall globes,so my hunch is that the Canadian Northern lanterns had globes marked CNO. DJB Posted Monday, July 29, 2013 by DJB

A. It can be confusing for collectors when obtaining CNR keys, locks and lanterns when questioning if it is from the parent company Canadian Northern or the successor Canadian National as all are marked CNR. The fancier lettering is seen from items from both roads, and merely indicates that the piece in question is from early production. For example, I have Canadian National locks with the fancy ornate lettering similar to that seen on Canadian Northern locks. The only difference is the key that the lock takes which tells the collector which road it is from. If the piece can be accurately dated and is prior to 1917 then it is Canadian Northern, if after 1917 it is Canadian National. So to answer your question the R with the hook on your lantern merely indicates early production, but the patent date of 1908 tells me it is a Canadian Northern piece. Happy collecting, Steve B. Posted Tuesday, July 30, 2013 by Steve Barnett

A. Thanks very much for the info guys. DJB, I did see that CNO Lantern on ebay, and when I did a little research I found there was a railway called Canadian Northern Ontario Railway, so I was thinking it had come from there. I have also seen locks marked CNO RR. Steve, thanks for the great info- I also have a lock with the same curved "R" on in, which opens with the standard Canadian National key. So does this mean that the lock I have is for Canadian National, and that Canadian Northern had their own locks with a different key? Posted Friday, August 30, 2013 by LV

A. LV- yes, the lock you have would be a Canadian National one. The Canadian Northern locks looked the same on the outside, as they were also marked 'CNR'. The collector knows which road it is from judging by the key way under the dust cover on the lock. Yes, the Canadian Northern keys are much different than the Canadian National ones. In fact the Canadian Northern switch keys have the same cut as the Great Northern Ry for your reference. There was also a CNR (Canadian National) car lock, which I have in my collections, and again it uses an entirely different key, though the lock again is marked CNR with no other markings. As these locks all use initials and don't have the railroad name spelled out the collector can only tell what road it is by the key the lock takes. The confusion can also be to the collector's advantage though, as in the case of when a store owner sold me a CNR key for $12 believing it was a plain old Canadian National key, when in fact it was the much older and more desirable Canadian Northern cut!! Posted Wednesday, September 4, 2013 by Barnett

A. Thanks again for some great info!!! I looked up the actual Canadian Northern key... I had seen pictures of it before and I was confused as to why there was a CNR key with a different cut but I had never put two and two together... Now it all makes sense! I have also seen a picture of a CNR key with a square hole... is that the car lock you are referring too? How were these car locks used? Posted Sunday, September 8, 2013 by LV

A. Sorry LV to not respond more quickly. Yes, I have seen the CNR keys with the square cut hole instead of round. CPR also had these. I had a look at my collection, and what I have is CNR- square hole, marked C for 'car', and CPR- square hole, marked T for 'tool house'. These square hole special purpose keys are very rare. For instance, I've only seen 4 of these for sale in 25 years of collecting. Obviously they were only given to section foremen and other supervisor types on the railroad to use. Hope this helps. Steve B. Posted Wednesday, October 30, 2013 by Steve B

 Q2584 Lamp Info Needed  I have a lamp I believe is from a train. Please see pictures. Is it possible to tell me a little more about it? You help would be greatly appreciated.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Friday, July 19, 2013 by PG   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. It seems to be the same as the lamp in prior Q 2576. Enter 2576 in the 'By Question Number' search box to see that info and pic. Posted Saturday, July 20, 2013 by RJMc

 Q2579 Globe Cleaning  Hello, Looked all over but could not find a solution to my problem. Cleaning a 'RED' Etched short lantern globe. Globe seems to have either 'hard water' or maybe a dried chemical stain - you can even feel it. Need to know what might be used & or how to clean without wrecking the color or etching. Thanks.  Posted Saturday, July 13, 2013 by Roy   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Are you sure that the stain isn't paint? If the stain is from hard water and it is white colored and crusty then it is probably calcium based. Try some "Lime Away" cleaner on a small part of the stain which is not too visible and see if that works. The red color is cast into the glass and the etching should not be affected. You might try carefully and gently scraping a small sample of the stain off with an Exacto knife and see what dissolves the flakes. Glass is pretty tough stuff when it comes to chemical oxidation. The etching is usually done by abrasion, i.e. sand or media blasting. If the stain has been on there for a long time then the smooth shiny surface of the glass may have been damaged but chances are the globe will still look better if the stain is removed. I have been known to put globes in the dishwasher in a seperate load and far apart from each other when my wife isn't home.  Posted Saturday, July 13, 2013 by KM

A. Some suggestions that may or may not work: (1)Coat with vaseline,leave for a week and remove; (2) Denture cleanser (either soak or use a soft toothbrush); (3) Soak in a mixture of ammonia and water (used with newspapers, this predated Windex on windows and I can attest it works well) and (4) a product called Krazy Kloth supposedly available in supermarkets. The above ideas are from internet websites (see Links). I have used them all except the Krazy Kloth and sometimes they work, sometimes they don't but at least they don't make the piece worse than before. I think a lot depends on what caused the cloudiness in the first place. A dishwasher is great but don't overdo it. Dishwasher detergent is essentially straight chlorine, and it will actually make "soft" glass cloudy after a number of washings. If you look with a magnifying glass the cloudiness is actually "etched" fine scratches into the surface, damage that cannot be repaired. Cheap table glassware (like those glasses marked FRANCE) is usually what gets damaged this way. Be careful about temperature and old glass - we have broken glasses in water not too hot to put hands into. Never subject glass to sudden temperature changes. If you are not sure of the cleaner, test it on a small area (like the side of the globe away from the etching, or just a small area of etching) to see what happens before treating the whole thing. Good luck!!  Link 1  Link 2  Posted Saturday, July 13, 2013 by JS

A. Use a glass polish and cleaner that is used by glass restorers. These products are available in cream form and they also remove film, very fine scratches,and usually any other buildup. You may also try taking a kleenex with either lacquer thinner, alcohol or benzene and wipe off the glass before polishing and then wiping down with windex. But remember do not use these products on some of the older globes that are colored with a film such as the red globes done in the late 1800's and early 1900's. Posted Sunday, July 14, 2013 by Keith

 Q2577 Real Lantern?  I have a railroad lantern marked at the top 'ARMSPEAR MFG. CO. NEW YORK' and '1925', which I understand to be their '1925' model. On the top rim of the lantern 'N&W.RY' is stamped. The lantern has a clear short globe; the only mark on the globe is a 'K' inside a small circle near the top rim of the globe. The lantern has a drop-in fount with a burner marked 'ADLAKE 400.' The bottom of the lantern is unmarked (no patent/manufacturer information) and has a small hole approx. 1/4 in. drilled in the center. Without any patent or other manufacturing information on the bottom of the lantern, I'm wondering if this is a 'real' railroad lantern or a more recent commercial product made to look like a vintage lantern. Any suggestions?  Posted Saturday, July 13, 2013 by RV   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  The lantern was used by the Norfolk and Western Railway. The fount and burner may have been replaced with the one from Adlake and that would not be unusual over the lifespan of a railroad lantern. The "K' on the globe stands for Kopp Glass Co. and they have been a globe supplier for many years. The link is for the Lantern Surveys list for Armspear lanterns which is in the Railroadiana Library and the N&W Ry. 1925 model is shown there. I have one Armspear 1925 in my collection which is from the Erie Railroad, patent date on the bottom is Feb.2,1926. It has an Adlake Kero globe which was made by Corning etched with the "E" Erie logo. There is no drain hole in the bottom, that may have been a later factory addition or it could have been done by the railroad. The fount and brass burner are unmarked. Link 1  Posted Saturday, July 13, 2013 by KM

A. It is real. Armspear hand lantern were made by Adlake, perhaps beginning in the mid 1930's. The Adlake fount and burner would be correct for the lantern and the factory drain hole began to appear in 1956, based on my observations with Adlake Keros and their manufactured dates stamped on the bottom. This is essentially a variation of an Adlake Kero and it is authentic. Posted Saturday, July 13, 2013 by JFR

 Q2576 What kind of lamp is it?  We recently purchased this lantern at an auction however it has no markings on it whatsoever. We were told it is all original glass and globe. Would it be possible for you to give us an idea as to what type of lantern it is and what it was used for? Thank you so much for any information you can provide to us!   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Saturday, July 13, 2013 by T&J   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. This lamp looks European to me. It may have been used on the front of a locomotive. See Q2360 and Q1045 in the Archives for examples of similar lamps that were used by the SNCF,(French National Railway)on their steam locomotives.  Posted Saturday, July 13, 2013 by KM

A. This is a C.T. Ham Traction Lamp, primarily used on steam tractors, etc.. After Dietz Bought the C.T. Ham Co. in 1914, they continued to offer this lamp as the Dietz "Night Guide" traction lamp for at least one year, presumably to sell off existing inventory.  Link 1  Posted Saturday, December 27, 2014 by W.T. Kirkman

 Q2574 What kind of lamp is it?  I recently inherited what appears to be a very old 'candle lamp' type inspector lantern. It stands about 8 inches tall and is about 3 inches in diameter. What make it unique among everything else I've seen on the Internet is the thumb lever just above the handle that opens and closes a double fluted damper on top of the lamp. I cannot find any markings on the lamp, but sure would like to know more about it so I can pass it on to my son one day. Any information will be greatly appreciated.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Thursday, July 4, 2013 by BL   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. This is another version of the kind of lamp discussed in prior Q 2558. These were the first kind of 'flash lamps' because policemen carried them and could 'flash' the beam at other persons nearby to summon help. The concept developed into today's 'flashlight.' Posted Thursday, July 4, 2013 by RJMc

 Q2572 Military Vs Railroad Vesta  I bought a kerosene lantern. The seller said it was a military lantern. The only things I see on the lantern is a new patent mark located near the much older ones of S-3-45. On the bottom of the lantern there are the numbers 212th written in a grey paint. The numbers and letters are not really neat as to the painting. However, the bottom has three metal circles of metal that are above and so the bottom is not flat. On the very top of the lantern are the words New York, Dietz Vesta, USA. On the globe are the words DIETZ, Vesta, New york, New York USA. I do not see any railroad markings any place on the lantern. My question is: Would this lantern actually be a military lantern? Also do you know if any lanterns were made specifically for the military and had any special markings? Thanks. Posted Tuesday, July 2, 2013 by JV   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. The short answer is 'yes'. The US Government bought large numbers of Vesta lanterns, such as yours, for use by the various military services in both World Wars. See prior Q's 1996, 1665, and 740 for a lot of discussion on this. I don't recognize your description of metal circles; a photo would really help here.  Posted Tuesday, July 2, 2013 by RJMc

A. CORRECTION: The correct Q to look at is 1946, not 1996. Q 740 has most of the discussion. Posted Tuesday, July 2, 2013 by RJMc

 Q2570 Marvel-Lite Lantern  I would like to open a discussion about this railroad looking lantern. This lantern is top marked 'MARVEL-LITE LANTERN Co. AUSTIN, MINN.' and while it is not in Barrett's railroad lantern book, it certainly has the characteristics and look of a railroad lantern. I bought it a number of years ago on that world renowned auction web site, and have not seen another one since - anywhere. The globe appears original and fits perfectly. A Dietz Vesta globe also fits, although the Vesta globe is narrower at the top. There are no markings on the globe. Note that the bail is rigidly attached to the globe guard wires and this is original to the lantern. I have Googled various word combinations and no information on Marvel Lantern Company shows up. A search of your Q & A database under'marvel' and 'marvel lite' yields nothing. If anyone has information or speculation on this lantern, or has one in their collection, I would appreciate hearing about it. Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Tuesday, June 25, 2013 by JEM   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  Here is a link that may help although it shows a pressure lantern not a railroad lantern. See Lampguild Q3601 in their Archives if this link does not work.  Link 1  Posted Wednesday, June 26, 2013 by KM

A. Thanks, KM. That link you posted didn't show up in my web search. Further research indicates that Marvel-Lite was a trademark of the Herz Company of St. Paul, MN. Herz appeared to be primarily a maker of gas pressure lamps (and even a pressurized gas heated iron), and perhaps they moved to Austin, MN (home of the American Gas Machine Co) and changed names, or merged or got bought out. But I digress. My thought now on this railroad looking lantern is that it either was sold as a general purpose lantern, or perhaps more likely, was a failed attempt to break into the lucrative (?) railroad lantern market.  Posted Thursday, June 27, 2013 by JEM

A.  The Lampguild mentions that Joseph Klema was the President of Marvel-Lite so I did a Google Patent Search on his name. A search on Herz did not turn up anything. Joseph N. Klema held three lantern pataents,and other patents for display signs with moving parts and posibbly a traffic light mechanism from 1940. Klema's patents are not assigned to Marvel-Lite or Herz. #1323698 from 12-2-19 might be for the globe retainer in the top of your lantern,see link 1. 1313390 from 8-19-19 which is a lantern with a colored shield around the flame instead of a colored globe see link 2. And I will give link 3 in the next reply for 1348810 from 8-3-20 which deals with the construction of the base and might be used on your lantern. Link 1  Link 2  Posted Thursday, June 27, 2013 by KM

A.  Here's link 3 for patent number 1348810. A second look shows that this patent deals with the base for the lantern that uses the height adjustable colored shield and probably is not related to your lantern. Many times in patents if a lantern was intended for railroad use they would mention that and I did not see it in any of these patents. On the other hand, the colored shield could have been intended for railroad use (if it worked). Strange also,but I did not find any pressure lantern patents from Klema.  Link 1  Posted Thursday, June 27, 2013 by KM

A.  One final thought, it is hard to tell without a more detailed photo. Could your lantern have had the colored shield? Is there any evidence of a mechanism that would have raised and lowered the shield around the burner and flame? The font looks narrow in the photo and similar to the drawings in the patents. And NO, I can't tell you where to get the shield if you need one! I'll bet that shield broke easily and might not have been heat resistant. A very interesting lantern though and thank you for sending in this question. Posted Thursday, June 27, 2013 by KM

A. KM - Thanks again for the links and info. Patent #1323698 from 12-2-19 is indeed for the globe retainer in the top of my lantern - it's identical. My lantern must have had the colored shield, now long gone, on it. You can't see it in the lantern photo, but the base does have a vertical slit about 2.5 inches long and 1/16 inch wide. On both sides of this slit the tin has been evenly worn away as though by something sliding up and down. You can see the slit on the drawing for patent #1313390 from 8-19-19, along with the slider knob for the colored shield. The current lantern burner has a shaft and knob long enough so that a shield would hit it, so the burner to be used with a shield would either have a very short shaft, or be the "pick wick" type with no mechanical adjustment. At a quick glance, patent number 1348810 seems to be about having two separate and independent colored shields with mechanisms attached to a bell bottom base, and does not apply to my lantern. It is easy to miss, but patent 1348810 does mention "railroad" as follows: "As disclosed in the accompanying drawings C denotes a casing of a conventional type generally employed in connection with a hand lantern of a railroad type and which is mounted at substantially the center of the cocavo convex base 1 having its concave face downwardly directed ." "Cocavo convex base" sounds like bell bottom to me. Thanks again for your research and input - most interesting!  Posted Friday, June 28, 2013 by JEM

A. KM - per your comment about the colored shield breaking. The shield would almost certainly be glass and by my measurement and the patent drawings it would have been less than one inch from the flame; perfect for heating the glass and breaking it. Posted Friday, June 28, 2013 by JEM

A.  I ran across this You Tube vid which shows taking apart a V&N lantern that used to have a movable colored shield or inner globe around the flame,see link 1. I wonder who was copying the idea? Some of the parts on the V&N lantern look very similar to the Marvel-Lite and that may give you an idea about the burner. See Supplement No. 1 to The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Railroad Lighting page 45 for photos of a V&N with the shield. And I checked the "Selected Patent Listing" in The Encyclopedia,it appears that part of the list is missing with a five year gap. On page 336 the list jumps from a patent that was issued in October,1915 to a patent from April,1920. The information is blank for patent 1336112 issued 4/6/20, that turns out to be for the V&N lantern, Frederick Vinton inventor. The "N" in V&N was Joseph Niccia. Klema's patents for the Marvel-Lite should be shown in that gap and that is what started me looking there.  Link 1  Posted Friday, June 28, 2013 by KM

A. KM - thanks again! I have a V&N lantern with a V&N globe and it also has the spring loaded glass shield holder per the You Tube video lantern. I never paid much attention to that mechanism, assuming it was to hold the upper part of the font in place. Perhaps a red glass tube for the V&N can be found at a specialty glass shop such as a stained glass shop. This Q&A board and especially KM have been most helpful.  Posted Sunday, June 30, 2013 by JEM

A.  Is there a brass serial number tag on your V&N lantern? The You Tube lantern is 551 or 561 and the lantern in the book is 2579. Both of those lanterns have the 1907 and the 1920 patent dates so they must have been made after 1920. Q1094 in the Archives is about another V&N lantern but no photo or patent dates given and no serial number. I have never seen a V&N, but I see that the inner globe had threads or a flange cast in and was screwed onto the plate that held it and that would make the glass much more difficult to reproduce.  Posted Sunday, June 30, 2013 by KM

A.  This link shows patent number 866242 from 9/17/07 which is for Vinton's earler version of the inner globe. The globe and the raising mechanism is very different from the 1920 version. Hss anyone ever seen the earlier version, or was it an example of a patented idea that was never produced?  Link 1  Posted Sunday, June 30, 2013 by KM

A. No brass serial# tag, but it has the Sept 17,1907 and Apr 6,1920 patent dates. The inner globe "retainer" or plate has four inward pointing indentations that would have held the inner globe - most likely then a friction fit. These indentations would provide stress points to the inner glass and lead to more breakage, and IMO, a friction fit to hold glass isn't smart engineering. Based on my measurements, the inner globe would only have been held by the lower plate indentations, and any sharp sideways knock could have tilted it. My V&N has almost 100% tin so it wasn't used much. The V&N is a heavy and complicated lantern using a special globe, and with the strong spring pushing up the inner globe holder, it's a real pain to get at the font for an oil fill, so no surprise V&N didn't last. If that inner globe plate pull down snapped up, a railroader could get a broken or damaged finger.  Posted Sunday, June 30, 2013 by JEM

A.  A V&N lantern with the brass serial number tag #2731 was sold on eBay recently. The lantern had a red cast in lettered "Southern" globe in it that was not marked V&N. The lantern itself was not marked "Southern" and the inner globe was missing. Posted Thursday, July 25, 2013 by KM

 Q2567 Globe Markings  Looking at the surveys, I see the Virginian 3 1/4 in. globes marked as VGNRy. Has anyone seen one marked as VGNRR? Also, the surveys list the Vesta 4 1/4 in. Pittsburg & Lake Erie globes marked as P&LE RR. Has anyone seen one marked as P.L.E.? Came across these examples and I’m wondering about them. Thanks,  Posted Friday, June 21, 2013 by JP   Post a Reply  Email a reply

 Q2566 Lamp and Lens Color Information Needed  I just recently stumbled onto a collection of rail-related items in my grandfather's attic. One of the big items I've got a question about is a large lighting device, imprinted on the top with 'Adlake Non Sweating Lamp Chicago'. From reading around your site, I gathered that it is an Adams and Westlake lamp, most likely used for signaling. However, I've not seen any comments regarding one of this configuration, with two yellow lenses on opposite sides, and two cyan lenses in green shrouds. Unfortunately, I'm unable to upload any pictures I've taken, but it is identical to the lamp at this link [link below]. Thankfully, the creator of the page did not include any copyright information and we are only using it as reference, so I do not feel as though any infringement is occurring, as per your site regulations. Any information you folks can provide would be greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance,  Posted Friday, June 21, 2013 by John  Link 1     Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Generally speaking, this is a 'switch lamp' which was placed alongside the track; similar lamps were used for several different purposes, but indicating the position of track switches was almost certainly the most common. Enter 2347 in hte 'By Qeustion Number' search box for just a start on discussions we have had on this subject. Also enter the words ' lens colors ' or enter ' switch lamp ' (don't enter the quotes) in the 'Word or phrase' search box to see the many other Q's where this has been discussed.  Posted Saturday, June 22, 2013 by RJMc

 Q2564 Northern Pacific Franken-Lantern  Take a look at the lantern in the image, described as a monstrosity by one collector I know. It’s a wire base 'The Adams' lantern for the Northern Pacific Railway, but someone has placed a bell bottom fount on it. While not made for the lantern, the fount does fit perfectly. My question is would a railroad ever do such a thing themselves, or was this probably added later by some collector just needing a fount on the lantern? I know railroads often used whatever they had on hand, to get the job done, but has anyone EVER seen such a thing by an active railroad? Thanks,   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, June 19, 2013 by JP   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. JP; This one goes under the “Who Knows?” category. In the photo, the patina on the two pieces appears to be pretty uniform indicating that they have been together for a long time and subjected to the same conditions. That makes me think a collector didn’t do it. I’d like to reframe your question from “would a Railroad ever do such a thing..?” to “would anyone working for the Railroad ever do such a thing?” -- All railroads had written and unwritten rules about the employees being frugal with the company’s assets; out of that, many items were cobbled together out of available parts. Would the N. P. have an official policy about combining lantern parts in that configuration? ..No! Could an employee of the N. P. have put that together and used it on the railroad? ..Absolutely. Individual railroaders tended to be pretty pragmatic and much more concerned about function and reliability than appearance. -- “...has anyone EVER seen such a thing by an active railroad?” -- Probably not; BUT that doesn’t mean anything! -- Something to always remember, something that people today cannot begin to comprehend, is that the railroads were ENORMOUS! They were such a huge entity in American society that several percent of the working population of the U.S. worked for a railroad! Everyone in this country either knew someone, was related to, or lived next door to somebody who worked for the railroad. In 1930, 30,000 people just in Chicago worked for the railroads (http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/1038.html) That’s a LOT of people; so just because no collector has ever seen something before, in no way indicates it did not exist in use somewhere! (Standard Practice?; NO ...possibly existed? Absolutely!) --- I have three ideas regarding your piece having been actually used on the railroad in that configuration; - 1) the lantern needed a replacement fount and that one was readily available so the railroader using the lantern put them together. - 2) All lanterns of a given make look alike. If you wanted to make sure that someone didn’t accidentally or intentionally walk off with your personal lantern, you needed to mark it in some way. The railroader may have, early on , swapped the original fount for the bellbottom one so he could quickly and positively identify his lantern. [see the last answer to Q2156; then click on the “Link 1” in the post right above that last one.] - 3) He may also have done it just for a goof or to create a conversation piece. Many railroaders had a strong ‘individualist’ streak in them and wanted to ‘stand out in the crowd’. One guy I worked with always looped his belt through his pants so that his belt buckle was on the side of his pants, two loops over from the fly. Another guy, who had to open a lot of company mail, let the nail on his little finger grow out almost a full inch, ..enough so that he could use it as a letter opener!!! (kidding him about how that looked had no effect on him, it was functional for him, ...and he liked the attention!) --- My guess would be #2 or #3, which would explain the very even and identical patina on both pieces --- By the way; --DO NOT-- clean that lantern up , polish or remove that patina in any manner. The lantern is much more interesting and way more valuable in its original condition, just as it is in the photo !!!! ---- ....Red Beard Posted Thursday, June 20, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Thanks, Red Beard. It certainly is an interesting lantern. I didn't even think about the even patina suggesting a long time mating of the fount to the lantern. Another oddity is the globe. It looks like someone has painted it red, on the inside. Now that red paint is flaking off into a sparkly mess. A lady in California sent the lantern to me for my collection. She originally found it in her late father's possessions back in the 1980s. She said he never worked for the railroad so she doesn't know where he got it from.  Posted Friday, June 21, 2013 by JP

A. Jeff; Always good to hear from you! --- That looks like a DIETZ globe; is it? (which would be non-original to the lantern as well) -- A number of those were painted red on the inside rather than being solid red glass. Their coloring process held up fairly well and was much cheaper to produce than using actual red glass. It did flake off in time as yours has done. That leads into a "whole nother story" that needs to be gone into in great detail on this site. ..maybe when I get back from the mountians next week. --- ....Red Beard Posted Friday, June 21, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. You're right Red Beard, that is a Dietz globe (a Vulcan), and another reason I refer to this lantern as a Franken-Lantern. :) That's pretty interesting about the paint, if it's original. I didn't know the companies did that and had assumed it was done by someone just wanting a cheap "red" globe. Posted Friday, June 21, 2013 by JP

A. Red Beard, thanks for the terrific information. I am wondering though whether Jeff's globe is "flashed" glass, which I believe is what you've referred to, i.e., a clear globe with a layer of red coating applied at the factory. Jeff I found some info about flashed glass and how it's made, please see the two Links below. The articles above aren't railroad related but I believe this is how a flashed RR globe is made. (If I'm wrong, someone please correct me?) Flashing isn't "paint," it's actually created by dipping a clear piece into molten red glass, creating a very thin layer of red on the surface of the clear beneath. As it gets old the red gets fragile and chips and flakes. On the other hand, Jeff, make sure this is not actually real paint. It's possible it could be (and would be flaking off the glass after some age). We've seen globes that people have actually painted with spray paint or house paint. Not good! You should be able to look closely and tell if it's thick paint. If it is flashed the flakes will be all a uniform color and incredibly, impossibly thin, hair thin. If it indeed is real paint, it will be thicker looking. If it's paint, take the globe out and take the paint off it as it should not have been painted. If it is indeed flashed, and the red is flaking away, I don't think there is any way to stop it or do anything about it. Your lantern looks really great, no rust or any problems. Red Beard is right, leave it alone!  Link 1  Link 2  Posted Saturday, June 22, 2013 by JS

A. I don't think the globe is "flashed". I do have an old globe that is flashed, and it doesn't look like that. It does appear to be some old paint or something similar, though it is thin. When you rub your finger against it, it comes off and sticks to your finger, almost looking like glitter. Would a truly flashed globe deteriorate like this?  Posted Thursday, June 27, 2013 by JP

 Q2563 Detroit United Railway lantern  I have a Detroit United Railway lantern. It is a Buhl lantern with red glass, and it is an oil lantern. Can you give me some information? Date? I cannot find any more online. Thank you  Posted Saturday, June 15, 2013 by Anushka   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Google it as there is a whole section on wikipedia. Posted Sunday, June 16, 2013 by BK

A.  Here's the link to the Wikipedia article on Detroit United Railway. According to the article they were around from 1900 to 1928 so that is the correct time frame for a Buhl lantern. If it has a model number it might be pre-1913, a name might be after 1913 up to 1928.  Link 1  Posted Sunday, June 16, 2013 by KM

A.  Send in a photo of this lantern. What you probably have is a tubular style general use lantern that was used on street barricades at construction sites by the trolley company. Buhl Stamping Company was incorporated in Detroit in 1888 and their main product was milk cans with one to ten gallon capacity for railroad use. They also made circular,cross cut and sheet metal saws. From 1891 to 1899 they produced an average of 5 to 6000 dozen tubular lanterns per year,and that quantity makes finding their tubular lanterns very common still. They may have produced railroad style dead flame lanterns between 1888 to 1896, but I have never seen one and other sources do not show photos of any of those so that may only be a myth. If you do have a railroad style lantern it would be very rare and a photo would be greatly appreciated. Prior to 1913 Buhl used model numbers on their lanterns,after 1913 and up to 1930 they used model names. Some of the names are Princess, Conquest, Hurricane,Majestic,and Little Giant. They do not list lanterns after 1930 in their catalogs. In 1944 they changed the company name from Buhl Stamping Company to Buhl Manufacturing Company and they may have gone out of business by 1956. Information comes from "Lanterns That Lit Our World,Book Two" by Anthony Hobson,Copyright 1996,Golden Hill Press, pages 14 through 21.  Posted Sunday, June 16, 2013 by KM

A. This link is for the page from the Railroadiana Online Library which is about tubular lanterns. There is a list of railroad and trolley lines that had marked tubular lanterns and that shows Detroit United Railways using Buhl Conquest models. How is your lantern marked? Is it embossed into the metal or is the name or initials stamped with a steel stamp set? Is the globe marked also, and if so is that etched in or cast in? Link 1  Posted Sunday, June 16, 2013 by KM

 Q2561 GC&SJ Lantern  I bought a lantern that has GC&SJ on it, It's not in the database so does anyone know what GC&SJ means? Thanks.  Posted Thursday, June 13, 2013 by Mik   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Golden Circle & San Juan -- the house railroad at the Colorado Railroad Museum. Posted Thursday, June 13, 2013 by RJM (the second)

A. See our article [link] on A&W 'heritage' lanterns -- lanterns that were produced largely for commemorative purposes rather than real railroad use. Link 1  Posted Thursday, June 13, 2013 by Web Editor

A.  I think the correct name is Golden City and San Juan,(not circle). Also see Q1844 and 1914 in the Archives. Some of these lanterns may have been mismarked CG&SJ by Adlake and sold by the museum gift store anyway. Posted Friday, June 14, 2013 by KM

 Q2560 Lantern Info Needed  I have these two lanterns and wanted to see if you could help me determine where from. The burner top / wick holder is marked EAGLE, the knob for the wick is marked DORSET DIV. THOMASTON CONN. P&A MADE IN USA (some rust). However, the bracket has no markings anywhere (measures 18 inches). Thanks!   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Tuesday, June 4, 2013 by AJ   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. This link from The Lampworks shows the wick knob with the Dorset name on it. Link 1  Posted Wednesday, June 5, 2013 by KM

A. These are caboose lamps with Plume and Atwood Eagle model burners in them. Dorset Rex acquired the P&A Thomaston plant in the mid 1950's so that may help you date the lamps. They made burners well ino the 1960's or 70's. See link 1 for a short history of P&A provided by Dan Edminster from The Lampworks in Hurleyville, NY. P&A burners were used by many manufacturers of lamps and lighting. These lamps may have been made by Handlan and the model number might be 380, see link 2 for page 5 from the 1956 Handlan catalog which is posted here in the Library on this website. There are some dimensions posted with the listing so you mught be able to compare those. the capacity of the font is listed as 32 ounces also. Also see questions 2211, 1545, and 899 in the Archives for similar lamps. Link 1  Link 2  Posted Wednesday, June 5, 2013 by KM

A. Thank you for the info! Because of the 1956 date on the catalog, do you know if the catalog is referencing lamps previously offered, or if the catalog was selling these lamps in 1956? If they are made after 1956, what do you think the latest manufacture date would have been? The lamps do measure the same as described in the catalog listing... Posted Thursday, June 6, 2013 by AJ

A. Handlan continued to sell the 380 model caboose/station lamp as a collectors or hobby item into the late 1980's or early 1990's. Link one shows the page from the Railroadiana library with a catalog from that time period. In 1856 some railroads might have still been using those lamps in older cabooses or camp cars that were not equipped with batteries and generators. Your lamps may have seen service on a railroad, or they might have been bought new by a railfan. They do look like they are well-weathered so someone may have displayed them outside. Link 1  Posted Thursday, June 6, 2013 by KM

 Q2559 NN Semaphore Lantern?  Picked this up several years ago and still don't know for sure what it is, or the mfg. Stands 15 in. high including the top loop. Is 5 in. square, bottom flange, adds 1/2 in. on all 4 sides. there is a 1 1/8 in. slot on each side. There are 2 bullseye lenses 3 1/8 in. dia. There is a 4 1/8in. sq. lens in a holder that hangs behind either clear lens and on back to store. Beehive burner = E. Miller. Bracket for hanging = 2 1/2 in. wide, 4in. high, held on with 3 rivets. Small top bail 1 1/2 in. square opening held on with 2 rivets. Couldn't find anything in Barretts' Vol 2 with that kind of bail.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Monday, June 3, 2013 by RL   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Hello. Some general comments: the tab-type mounting bracket suggests vehicle mounting -- this type of mount went into a slot made by a simple strap-iron U-shaped bracket on the vehicle body. This mount was typical for streetcar and interurban headlights, for example, and probably also on wagons, carriages, and early trucks; usually lower-speed and less demanding service than regular RR service demanded. Some nautical applications are also possible. The small bail indicates the lamp didn't have to get moved very often. Is the '4 1/8" square lens' with the lamp, or just the provision for storing it? If it is there, is it colored, such as red, or maybe green, or possibly even an opaque blanking plate? The double lenses suggest the need to alternatively signal two opposing directions (likely front and rear); this would be supported if the changeable lens was colored.  Posted Monday, June 3, 2013 by RJMc

A. Thanks RJMc, It is a red glass lens in a holder that can hang behing either clear lens, or hang in the back out of the way. Posted Monday, June 3, 2013 by RL

A. Looks very similar to #1 semaphore lanterns made by Peter Gray of Boston. JoeF  Link 1  Posted Wednesday, June 19, 2013 by Joe Farrell

 Q2558 Lamp Information Needed  I am hoping you can help. My father recently passed away. He was quite an antique collector. Many things he had marked but we haven’t been able to find anything about this lamp. There are no markings on the lamp or the fuel can located inside the lamp. The lamp itself is made of a light weight medal but heavier than tin. The single lens is a solid heavy piece of somewhat clear glass, there are no markings nor color to the glass, the shape and weight reminds me of a paperweight. There is not a typical handle but the back does have two round hooks and a spot that looks like the lamp could have been mounted. The fuel container has a wick that is about 1/4 inch thick cording. There is a slide that block out the light that would show through the lens. There is no mirror inside the lamp to reflect the light. It is only about six inches tall. I’ve scoured the internet but don’t find a picture of a lamp that matches this one. Any information you can give me about this lamp will be greatly appreciated. Thank you!   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Monday, June 3, 2013 by SC   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. It is essentially a liquid fueled predecessor to the flashlight, several manufacturers produced them and most shared the same design features. They are commonly called bulls eye lamps, police lanterns, flash lamps etc. The shield inside allows the light to be blocked when needed. there is usually a clip or hook on the back to allow it to be clipped onto a belt. If you Google policeman's bulls eye lamp you should find the info your looking for. Posted Monday, June 3, 2013 by W.M.

 Q2557 Platform Lamps or Something Else?  A few years back, I acquired two of these lamps for a very reasonable price. I’m just casually wondering if they are authentic railroad or something that somebody with great metal working skills just made up on their own. There is not a single manufacturing mark or any writing of any kind. The lenses are modern optical plastic and the band that holds them on is not a typical draw band with a nut and bolt but merely carefully hammered metal (i.e., maybe copper) that’s been formed around the lens then overlaps at the junction. As you can see, there’s quite a bit of workmanship on the sides and undersides. It looks like they slipped into an attachment of some kind at the bottom. I understand the CMStP&P shops use to make a lot of their own lamps and such. Would love to have an opinion. BTW….on this board I’ve gone by both TJ and TE. I’m Tim Eizinger and did all the scans on the 1907 Adlake Catalog that’s in the library here--and no small job was that. Also, I did the 1956 Handlan Catalog.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Saturday, May 18, 2013 by TE   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Hi TE, always good to hear from you, and thanks for providing those scans. I refer to them often. -- I’ve been hoping someone would have a solid answer for you, which I don’t. -- What is the diameter of that lens?? -- The “Cookie Cutter” cap and the nice rolled rings at the top and lower edges of the stack make me think it is not ‘home made’ as those would be pretty hard to make by hand. The clasp that holds the door closed though, suggests fairly low tech metal smithing. The overall construction of the body does look hand crafted and, to me, pretty old in design, as does that clasp. The tall “Paper Clip” shaped bail gives it a European / Third World look, and the overall construction makes me think “Third World”. -- I wonder what that box on the back is for (the one with the two curved tabs sticking out of the top). -- That draw band is not that unusual. I have several modern lamps with lens bands formed in that same fashion with the crinkled edge (though with the screw brackets attached), and lamps with them show up on eBay from time to time. -- That low mounted peephole would indicate that the fount and burner were not very tall and the flame possibly not in line with the center axis of the lens, which would suggest a Third World origin as well; ..maybe even a candle lamp. India apparently used candle lamps with Fresnel lenses, an odd combination, as the focal axis of the beam would vary vertically up and down greatly as the candle burned; inverse to the height of the candle. -- Having said all that, it is a very interesting lamp and certainly unusual. ---- ....Red Beard. Posted Monday, May 27, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Greetings Red Beard. As always, thanx for the info and analysis. The lenses are 5". There were two things about these lamps (maybe three) that had me wondering from the beginning. But first let me say that I entered into buying these with no promises or illusions that they were anything special other than a novelty. I paid 11 bucks apiece so I wasn't out much. While the metal gauge is heavy, (or at least very solid) and the workmanship quite good--the windproofing capacity around the door area is zilch. A lite breeze on your patio would blow out a flame and it's not simply because the door panel is out of alignment. Also, inside, there is no housing or appendage for the font or a fuel pot of any kind to slide into or be held firmly in place. It's just a totally open area which again, isn't typical of railroad or marine class lamps. Thirdly, the guy had six of these which seemed like a lot and that initially made me wonder if somebody was making these but if they were, I'm sure they would not have gone to all the trouble of that material on the back and underside of the exterior. And the peep hole is in a really strange place which made me wonder if these were meant to be mounted above eye level or head level and thus checked from an angle looking up. Not sure if I will ever know but I bet you're right in that they are a foreign deal.  Posted Tuesday, May 28, 2013 by TE

 Q2553 Red Vesta  I have a Dietz Vesta Lantern with a production date of 10-52 made in the Syracuse plant as indicated by the number 2 preceding the manufacture date. The lantern I have is painted red. Can you tell me if the Vestas ever came from the factory painted red or any other color? Thanks.  Posted Friday, April 26, 2013 by Mike L   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. A small correction the number "2" that you mention in the production date is actually an "S" for Syracuse plant. The other letter that Dietz may have used on some models was "M" for main plant in New York City. Vesta's were only made in Syracuse. Dietz did not offer painted Vesta's as a standard order,but who knows,if someone wanted to order a quantity of them they might have painted them. Take a good look at the quality of the paint job, does it look like a spray can job or factory? Is there shadow where the spray can missed on the inside of parts like the wire cage? Railroaders frequently painted their own lanterns in order to identify them, that way they knew that the lantern was full of kerosne and had a good wick in it when they came to work. Dietz did paint some of their railroad lanterns like the 999 model with a blue color. Dressel also painted some of their lanterns a gray color, and Handlan offered lanterns with a red brim on the smoke dome. Archived questions about painted lanterns including how to remove paint are 349, 451, 964, 1053, 1252, 1379, 1415, 1862, 2315,2316,2317,and 2402.  Posted Saturday, April 27, 2013 by KM

A. As the person said about painting. Individuals changed lanterns to either their own taste or designated color for certain areas. I used to find lanterns along the MC and PRR tracks all painted flat black. Handlan painted many of their lanterns silver at the factory. Not answering your question, check the type of paint used. Most factories painted with lacquer and back in that time it was only available commercially an not to the general public. Do more research. Keith Posted Wednesday, June 5, 2013 by Keith

 Q2551 AVRR Lantern  I'm wondering if anyone out there could help me identify a railroad marking on a lantern. l have an 'ADAMS' (ADAMAS & WESTLAKE) bellbottom double guard lantern with the marking A.V. RR on dome shoulder. I have a tall 5/38 inch globe cast with 'PENNSYLVANIA LINES' and on the reverse side ' M-E G CO' and the number '13' (manufacturer id?) on it. Could you identify the railroad on the lantern and do you think the lantern globe is original to it even though it does not match? I saw an 'Allegany Valley RR' from late 1800s on a Penn RR history wikipedia site. Would this make sense? Also who is the manufacturer of the globe?  Posted Tuesday, April 23, 2013 by CS   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. M-E G CO is MacBeth-Evans Glass Company an old maker. There is Wikipedia information about it too. Wikipedia can provide really great lists of defunct rail lines, often with successors' names. I'm not familiar with Pennsy lines but IF the PRR is successor to AVRR, I would guess the globe is probably correct. Probably the original globe was AVRR also, got broken during the PRR ownership and was replaced by a Lines globe. This happens with many roads, an older frame loses the globe which is replaced by one of the then-current ownership.  Posted Tuesday, April 23, 2013 by JMS

A. Your lantern is from the Allegheny Valley RR, which operated north out of Pittsburgh to Oil City, PA, and east from Red Bank to Driftwood (Low Grade Line) on the P&E RR. Both the AVRR and the P&ERR were early PRR affiliates. The PENNSYLVANIA LINES marking on your globe refers to Pennsylvania Lines West of Pittsburgh. The group of RR lines west of Pittsburgh and Erie, comprising the modern day PRR, were managed and operated under a separate entity until around 1918. Equipment purchased by this entity can be found with Pennsylvania Lines markings, or with the markings of early, original predecessors. Some tinware and tools are found with PALW (PA Lines West) markings, but lanterns and globes are distinctively Pennsylvania Lines or Penn Lines. As for whether or not your globe is technically correct for your lantern, the AVRR became affiliated with the PRR proper very early, so a PRR globe would be a closer relative. As time passed and the PRR coalesced into its final corporate form, equipment markings became simply PRR, often with the keystone logo, as on lanterns and globes after 1920 or so.  Posted Tuesday, April 23, 2013 by ABSwoyer

 Q2548 Firing up a Lantern  I've been asked by many people if I ever fire up my old RR lanterns and I never have. I guess my thinking has been that I don't want to risk damaging any of them. Recently, I acquired an unmarked lantern of RR 'style' and have been thinking about firing it up as a 'demonstrator'. The lantern is a 'mutt'. (In other words, it's an Adlake Kero with a generic globe and a Dressel fount with unknown burner). I've noticed through my collecting that burners, founts and frames get mixed up, probably through the changing of hands through the years and maybe even by the RRs themselves. The question I want to ask is: Does the burner assembly/wick matter for a given frame? Some wick holder/burner assemblies are taller and narrower while some are shorter and wider. Some have the wick guards while others do not. Some founts read 'Use long burning oil only' while some have nothing at all on them. Some founts have packing in them. I think the taller globes used some sort of lamp oil while this short globe version used kerosene, but I'm not exactly sure. Wicks/Fuel/Burners/Fonts. All a bit of a mystery to me. Any suggestions for someone who would like to fire one up (safely)? Many thanks in advance,  Posted Tuesday, April 16, 2013 by Stro   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. I use regular lamp oil in all my lanterns. Let the flame burn low a few minutes to warm up the globe, then turn up the flame . If the flame starts smoking then it is too high. Lanterns are meant to be lit. Have fun with them. If you have a valuable globe, put a generic one in when you fire it.  Posted Tuesday, April 16, 2013 by JN

A. It IS important to use the correct size wick for the burner tube. Too large a wick will jam when you try to raise or lower it. Too narrow a wick will leave a gap in the tube that risks liquid bypassing the wick into the globe space and igniting, or having the flame migrate down the wick into the fuel space -- all very undesirable events -- and all avoided by having a proper wick that just snugly fills the tube. Posted Tuesday, April 16, 2013 by RJMc

A. I'd be careful about firing up a mint condition un-fired vintage lantern if some day you or your heirs ever may re sell it. I sold an unlit Traffic Gard 1st model for $105.00 12 years ago. At that time good used ones were 15 or 20 bucks. Today Used fired up ones go for maybe $30 on a good day in used very good condition. While not a RR lantern I suspect unfired vintage RR lanterns command a higher price then ones that have been fired up provided they are marked from the same RR. Posted Tuesday, April 16, 2013 by Jon G

A. The Link is to W.T. Kirkman's excellent page on how to use lanterns, including vintage copies of the instruction brochures originally provided with lanterns when new. If you are seriously concerned about destroying historic value, you will see there that new lanterns are very economical and come 'ready to use' (the wick is the only 'software' required, and it IS included!) and the new lanterns can provide excellent emergency lighting capability. Link 1  Posted Wednesday, April 17, 2013 by RJMc

 Q2547 What is it?  I bought this piece at an auction but no one there knew what it was. I have been told that it might have been used in railroading. Can you help identify this piece? Thanks for any help. Jim   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Monday, April 15, 2013 by JS   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. It is a battery operated railroad lantern. This is what replaced kerosene lanterns. There should be 2 bulbs in it, one that can be seen in all directions that is used for signaling, and the other one is slightly recessed in a polished reflective area that shines a bright beam for use as a flashlight. Modern ones are usually plastic now. Amtrak uses smaller, chrome ones for passenger crews. It uses a standard square 6V battery, available most everywhere. Posted Monday, April 15, 2013 by JN

A. All correct so far; and to select the right battery they are usually called a '6 Volt Lantern Battery' and are available at most larger drug stores, home supply centers, and Radio Shacks. The screw-in light bulbs are getting harder to find, as LED flashlights get more common. But before you invest in a battery, see if you can twist and lift off the cap under the handle and make sure the insides of the lantern are not already corroded beyond use, and indeed whether a dead leaking battery might still be in the lantern. What most often happens is the old dead batteries are left in, and the battery chemicals leak and eat out the lantern contacts and switches. After this happens it is almost hopeless to get the lantern working and keep it working.  Posted Tuesday, April 16, 2013 by RJMc

A. See also prior Q 2195 and Q 870 for more discussion of these and similar electric lanterns.  Posted Tuesday, April 16, 2013 by RJMc